What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Haru304]

Thought it was pretty good to be honest. Hit many similar beats to Shadowbringers.

Can't help but feel as if for a lot of people Shadowbringers was baby's first JRPG storyline and it looked all bright, new shiny and 'omg I've never seen these tropes before'. I mean, it was really good to see in an MMORPG storyline but it wasn't the best thing since sliced bread.

In some ways, I actually think Endwalker is a step up and I didn't think they could pull it off. It was entirely unpredictable and I feel like my expectations were subverted in a good way. It has all of the traditional FF ingredients to success - from war and horror to cute moon rabbits.

Not only did they wrap up the 'Ascian Saga' but they've even left open elements of it for further world building or elaboration; see pandaemonium, the 13th, remaining sundered ascians, etc. They dealt their hand without throwing away the whole deck.
I hated Zenos in Stormblood, partially because I feel as if the character writing was a little all over the place during that expansion. I quite like him here. He's more understandable and this was one of the best ways they could have tied up his story arc. It's made me retroactively appreciate him and brought some consistency to his character.

Some things I think they could've done 'objectively' better are -

- less skimping out on the voice acting.

- more exposition of the horrific final days, maybe kill off a few minor nps or show them as missing afterwards, make it more impactful. It kind of felt like a wet fart. I understand that's difficult to do though.
I don't really have anything else to add beyond that without venturing into spoiler territory.

Don't understand this whole 'omg y didn't they kill off a character' shit. I mean sure, yeah, if they could do it in a meaningful way then that'd be great. Expecting Thancred to never come back after blinking out is a bit silly though, same with what happened afterwards. When it 'kind of' happened with Minfillia, does nobody else remember how bizarre and jarring that was? Lol. You -really- have to make a character's death a bit more impactful and meaningful, with some foreshadowing sprinkled in.

I'd have personally killed off Urianger, because he had a very emotional arc this time around and I half-expected him to follow in Louisoix and Papalymo's footsteps. I could come up with a few ways to do that, especially in the final battle against Endsinger. But as Alisaie has said repeatedly 'no more heroic sacrifices'. They're often times extremely overdone and add nothing but 'oh that person died, wow that's edgy'. You can only pull so many of the same trick out of a hat before people get accustomed to it.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Some things I think they could've done 'objectively' better are -

- less skimping out on the voice acting.

- more exposition of the horrific final days, maybe kill off a few minor nps or show them as missing afterwards, make it more impactful. It kind of felt like a wet fart. I understand that's difficult to do though.
I don't really have anything else to add beyond that without venturing into spoiler territory.

Don't understand this whole 'omg y didn't they kill off a character' shit. I mean sure, yeah, if they could do it in a meaningful way then that'd be great. Expecting Thancred to never come back after blinking out is a bit silly though, same with what happened afterwards. When it 'kind of' happened with Minfillia, does nobody else remember how bizarre and jarring that was? Lol. You -really- have to make a character's death a bit more impactful and meaningful, with some foreshadowing sprinkled in.

I'd have personally killed off Urianger, because he had a very emotional arc this time around and I half-expected him to follow in Louisoix and Papalymo's footsteps. I could come up with a few ways to do that, especially in the final battle against Endsinger. But as Alisaie has said repeatedly 'no more heroic sacrifices'. They're often times extremely overdone and add nothing but 'oh that person died, wow that's edgy'. You can only pull so many of the same trick out of a hat before people get accustomed to it.

--Think So? Maybe Im just no memorizing it correctly, but I felt like they did more Voice Acting this time around.
Plus we still have Post, so there might be even more Voice Acting.

--You mean like a Cutscene that shows the moment it happened and all the death and destruction unfold before our eyes?
Thinking about it, it might have been an interesting Spectacle similar to the Great ARR Opening/1.0 Ending. But part of me feels like...idk we dont really need to see the destruction. Or if they were gonna do it, they should have done it back in Shadowbringers. I think it would have made more sense then.

--The whole Killing off a Character thing for some people I think; wither they'll admit it or not, is just a weird thrill for them. I think calling it a Kink might be going to far. Some people just like Death and find it exciting.
Without Purpose and Meaning, I think its just silly and cheap. Nobody needs to die, and it wouldn't make the story any more interesting, unless there is a reason. You don't just kill off a character just to be edgy. You kill them off if they serve their purpose, or if there is a Purpose to the Death; like a Motivation, or a Redemption arc.
Like if anybody was actually going to Die, I thought it would be Alphi. That stupid good Trailer really made me think that was it for him. And I personally think it might have been a good exit for him.

[Kozh]

But as Alisaie has said repeatedly 'no more heroic sacrifices'. They're often times extremely overdone and add nothing but 'oh that person died, wow that's edgy'. You can only pull so many of the same trick out of a hat before people get accustomed to it.

And it's also applied for opposite. There's only so many fake out death and plot armor to protect the protagonists before it gets tiring.

That aside... I actually can stand having the characters not dying, but what I can't stand is us, the WoL and the scions, to be always in the winning and righteous side, no matter what the situation was. We never been on the losing side, never been on the morally grey side, always been the bastion and pinnacle of morality, can come up with any solutions that doesn't require them to be the "villains". I wish for more uldah banquet type of situation, where we were on the defensive side. After HW, all we get at most is "being mildly inconvenient during the expansion and being victorious in the end anyway".

[Atelier-Bagur]

And it's also applied for opposite. There's only so many fake out death and plot armor to protect the protagonists before it gets tiring.

That aside... I actually can stand having the characters not dying, but what I can't stand is us, the WoL and the scions, to be always in the winning and righteous side, no matter what the situation was. We never been on the losing side, never been on the morally grey side, always been the bastion and pinnacle of morality, can come up with any solutions that doesn't require them to be the "villains". I wish for more uldah banquet type of situation, where we were on the defensive side. After HW, all we get at most is "being mildly inconvenient during the expansion and being victorious in the end anyway".

Yeah...who could forget how we totally "trounced" Zenos and the Empire when they first invaded Rhalgr's Reach in Stormblood. Or how the Eulmoran army were totally "running with their tails between their legs" during that first major battle in Lakeland.

It hasnt been all victories, the difference is that us and Scions are persistent enough to move forward and do better.

[Haru304]

And it's also applied for opposite. There's only so many fake out death and plot armor to protect the protagonists before it gets tiring.

That aside... I actually can stand having the characters not dying, but what I can't stand is us, the WoL and the scions, to be always in the winning and righteous side, no matter what the situation was. We never been on the losing side, never been on the morally grey side, always been the bastion and pinnacle of morality, can come up with any solutions that doesn't require them to be the "villains". I wish for more uldah banquet type of situation, where we were on the defensive side. After HW, all we get at most is "being mildly inconvenient during the expansion and being victorious in the end anyway".

In regards to the Scions and where plot armor is concerned that's probably because there's still stories to be told concerning them as individuals later down the line. FF and JRPGs especially aren't particularly great when it comes to moral ambiguity on the 'whole', there are some exceptions but for the FF series in-particular, any moral greyness is usually on the part of the opposing side while the heroes are always morally righteous. I imagine it's even harder to create a storyline like that for FFXIV because they're limited by the medium of an MMORPG.

What I will say is that in regards to FFXIV, there's a lot of times when the pressure is on and our actions have world or country spanning consequences, which keeps things rather amusing. A big part of Endwalker was fighting against despair itself, rather than just pitting hero against villain. The mental scars will probably sting many of the Scions for quite a while, if not our own character.

Since the story is moving away from the Scions now, we might be introduced to a more motley crew of more morally nuanced characters but given what I said before, especially where Square Enix is concerned, I don't think we're going to get it but then again, I don't really think morality is one of the core themes they've been going with and the ending to Endwalker really hit that home.

[KizuyaKatogami]

In regards to the Scions and where plot armor is concerned that's probably because there's still stories to be told concerning them as individuals later down the line.

What exactly did Yshtola do of significance this expansion outside of the Ultima Thule snippet? Because i for the life of me can’t think of anything she really did outside of reading some books but maybe i missed something, but she seemed like the character the most that was just…there. Urianger had the rabbits, Thancred had the garlemald infiltration, Krile alisaie and alphinaud had sharlayan. But what exactly did Yshtola do that any of the others couldn’t have done in her place?

[DBriggs304]

I was told FF14's story was the greatest thing around. That if I would spend time on it, I'd come out happier than ever. Friends would ask me time and time again "Are you loving it?"

In the end, all I learned is my opinion is not wanted. I get it, no one likes to have something they enjoy spoken ill of. That's fine.

If you love the story, more power to you. I don't, and I'd honestly rather not be forced through it. I just want to play the game. And that means not being errand/postal service boy for hours of my time.

The story is the game. That's never going to change. Nothing wrong with not liking it. No different than a movie, music, or food.

Some people like it, some don't. It's ok either way.

[HappyHubris]

I disliked the reuse of time travel, especially mixing the "multiverse time travel" of ShB with "closed loop" time travel the very next expansion.
I disliked shoving Zenos in our face for literally no reason.
I disliked how we finally visited the Garlean empire and it was...an empty zone. With no Gaius.
I disliked how our benevolent goddess apparently purposefully doomed her entire world and countless others, because the WoL was like really, really cool when they chatted, once.
I disliked wasting so much time in the pointless zone of Thavnair.

Basically, if you killed Thavnair, wrote out Zenos earlier (or tasked him with something to do), gave us a fully fleshed Garlean campaign, and made the time travel an echo instead of a kludge, it would have been a really strong expansion. Instead it was a muddled mess.

[Neotempest]

"Venat doomed the world by not telling her people about Meteion" This has to be one of the most sheltered, lives in their own bubble response I have seen constantly in this thread. I could easily look at any social media, see how people who don't take the poke are seen as evil for having an opposing opinion. Then the people in this forum just assume that the odd personality, former Azem crystal holder who is known to be quirky, is being super cereal about Meteion. There is nothing in the game that can support the theory that they will accept this information and is literally created out of thin air based on their head cannon alone. The ancients lived sheltered, they acted sheltered when the world wasn't perfect. They didn't hesitate to sacrifice lives to keep their security blanket. Maybe have some actual info that supports the claim that the Ancients would of believed Venat before jumping to your own conclusive head cannon info.

[ApolloGenX]

"Venat doomed the world by not telling her people about Meteion" This has to be one of the most sheltered, lives in their own bubble response I have seen constantly in this thread. I could easily look at any social media, see how people who don't take the poke are seen as evil for having an opposing opinion. Then the people in this forum just assume that the odd personality, former Azem crystal holder who is known to be quirky, is being super cereal about Meteion. There is nothing in the game that can support the theory that they will accept this information and is literally created out of thin air based on their head cannon alone. The ancients lived sheltered, they acted sheltered when the world wasn't perfect. They didn't hesitate to sacrifice lives to keep their security blanket. Maybe have some actual info that supports the claim that the Ancients would of believed Venat before jumping to your own conclusive head cannon info.

Didn't Venat show us magic that would show what happened in a particular place (kind of like the echo?). How hard would it be for her to show Emet and Hyth what happened at several locations to prove what she said was true? She had a tracker on Metion. There had to be research records on Metions design. People keep acting like it's just Venat's word against everyone. There is evidence and there are witnesses... we spent our whole time in Elpis finding it. The memwipe was a cheesy gimmick, imo. Emet and Hyth believed us... why wouldn't they believe Venat? Heck... wouldn't a cursory look at the Krono or whatever it was called show there was no malfunction?

Let's also not forget the warning could have come BEFORE the final days even started, lending credibility to the claim.... it's not like she had to wait until catastrophe hit to tell anyone.