What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[HisShadowX]

• The mighty Zodiark, which has been build up as this mighty(evil) entity over several expansions, turns out to be nothing but filler trash for the first Endwalker trial
• The true cause of the Final Days is a pet-project from an ancient which goes mad after observing countless dead world and possibly causing the death of several world by projecting negative emotions unto them, and is thus dead-set on bringing despair to every world, upon which said ancient goes mad and is now letting her run her course to test humanity if they can withstand/fight despair
• Venat, who hasn't had her memory wiped + still remembers you from being in Elpis, quite apparently doesn't lift a finger to learn about Dynamis herself or to mobilize the other ancients to end Meteion then and there, and instead chooses to turn herself into Hydaelyn, sunder the world and the inhabitants, thereby forcing them to live with and face despair and gambling that their resilience against despair might be enough to face Meteion one day

Really?
This is the best SQ could do in terms of story after ShB?

Zodiark is not complete so this is understandable. Also Zodiark lost its heart or rather Engine which now is Hermes reincarnation.

If anything I was more insulted by the fact they copied off of Aliens and used a Bioorganic super weapon that goes loose and causes death and destruction and the fact the superweapon is a KAWAII Anime Girl.

Then I had to think about it and was Yoshi P trying to make the bad guy his fanbase and their deserves. As you know the weebs love their anime girl pillows and such and are known as massive depressives like Hermes. Think of the Anime KAWAII girl as a real doll for for the weebs and they pretty much state a depressed soul will be like that no matter who they are reincarnated as. Its sort like of when Bill Shatner of Star Trek started to attack is fans.

[Lauront]

Venat in FFXII was a villain as well in my eyes. Now that I think about it, I suppose they weren't all that different. Both had a misguided ideology they felt would benefit mankind more than the status quo and were Hell bent on seeing it done regardless of the amount of bloodshed it caused.



I hated that as well. Meanwhile, after the Hydaelyn trial we get Alisaie saying, "No! This can't be happening!" and I'm like "Ding dong, the witch is dead." :P

I read in Japan it's made more clear that Emet is a hero, supposedly the lyrics of the song are "one hero brings shadow, one hero brings light". I think player viewpoints depend a lot on who they sympathized with and I found the Ancients more sympathetic than the sundered, particularly the Scions who are all rather privileged. Ultima Thule fell flat for me not because of the fake out deaths, but because except for G'raha and Estinien none of them had experienced despair on a relatable level for me. The Ancients were (and still are) the original victims, who endured an apocalypse, survived it, only to be split apart and forever live as shadows of their former selves.

I think it's clear in the EN version as well but it's tucked away more, e.g. in the trial blurb:

Hearken unto a requiem for a hero fallen. A man who lived a thousand thousand of our lives clinging desperately to faint hope, never shirking his sworn duty to his long-lost brethren. A man who stood proud and did avow his true name on the threshold of the battle that would see him fall to his rival─the light to quench his shadow. Borrowing liberally from the funereal rites of the Night's Blessed, the minstreling wanderer weaves an elegy in that hero's honor─the tragic-yet-triumphant tale of a man and a battle that ne'er shall be forgotten.

Nonetheless, they don't shy away from calling him a "villain" etc. in interviews, even as they claim it's down to perspective (i.e. who is "right" is down to whose side stands to benefit etc.) so if she's meant to be judged in the same light as SHB Emet, would they refer to her as such as well? There's a disconnect in a lot of what is said, both with Emet-Selch and Elidibus, and how the characters themselves behave after, as well as the degree of pushback they get - Venat/Hydaelyn gets next to none. With Emet-Selch, quite understandably all the Scions stand against him, and with Elidibus you're even repeating some of Emet's lines. Whereas with her, there's just this tacit acceptance of everything she's said and done - I guess because they weren't the ones directly impacted by it, and Emet apparently had already resigned himself to passing on by Ultima Thule.

Overall, nearly everything about it annoyed me, including the lack of curiosity in our character about their ancient self, plus the persistent vacant stares when addressed by Emet-Selch and Hyth (although at least there's an apology to Elidibus), as well as Y'shtola's brain going AWOL.

[Kyohei]

Nonetheless, they don't shy away from calling him a "villain" etc. in interviews, even as they claim it's down to perspective (i.e. who is "right" is down to whose side stands to benefit etc.) so if she's meant to be judged in the same light as SHB Emet, would they refer to her as such as well? There's a disconnect in a lot of what is said, both with Emet-Selch and Elidibus, and how the characters themselves behave after, as well as the degree of pushback they get - Venat/Hydaelyn gets next to none. With Emet-Selch, quite understandably all the Scions stand against him, and with Elidibus you're even repeating some of Emet's lines. Whereas with her, there's just this tacit acceptance of everything she's said and done - I guess because they weren't the ones directly impacted by it, and Emet apparently had already resigned himself to passing on by Ultima Thule.

Overall, nearly everything about it annoyed me, including the lack of curiosity in our character about their ancient self, plus the persistent vacant stares when addressed by Emet-Selch and Hyth (although at least there's an apology to Elidibus), as well as Y'shtola's brain going AWOL.

Pretty much. The lack of option to voice different opinions (even though it ofc doesn't impact the story) for our character, and the lack of meaningful actions/reactions when needed are what made it quite unbearable to go through.
And despite everything that was said and thought Emet-Selch *whose death is welcomed in ShB* is still depicted as the villain while Venat *whose death is mourned* is a hero and has a minion that makes sure you know it.

[jameseoakes]

Pretty much. The lack of option to voice different opinions (even though it ofc doesn't impact the story) for our character, and the lack of meaningful actions/reactions when needed are what made it quite unbearable to go through.
And despite everything that was said and thought Emet-Selch *whose death is welcomed in ShB* is still depicted as the villain while Venat *whose death is mourned* is a hero and has a minion that makes sure you know it.

I don't think it helps that the story spent a lot of time building the idea that Hydaelyn loved the peoples of the source and the the reflection and pushed that in the dialogue hard and then when it comes to Venat they don't really show her having any strong feelings for the people she made only being interested in them as a means to prove her ideology right

[Kyohei]

That's a good point, now that you say it she did seem a bit cold and distant when we get to meet her again in Aitiascope.
She was ready to give up on all the other reflections to save the Source only too, kind of akin to saving your eldest child while letting the others drown...sure doesn't feel right.

[KageTokage]

The Elpis story arc was really the only part of Endwalker that hugely disappointed me in hindsight because it betrayed my expectations and not in a good way.

The Twinning dungeon having us go in and break the time machine in the Crystal Tower felt like the writers not-so-subtly saying "Okay, there isn't going to be any more timey-wimey nonsense." then they doubled back on that and made it have much further reaching implications/effects then any of the prior instances of it did.

There was so little foreshadowing or build-up to the twist it just felt really...cheap compared to every other major story beat in XIV overall.

[KageTokage]

I like how someone immaturely tagged this thread as "whining" as though we're wrong for having criticism of the story.

What's done is done and there's no changing the story that's already happened, but if the writers are aware of elements that several people did not like, they may avoid making the same mistakes in the future.

Though considering that they seemed surprised by how a lot of people were interpreting/viewing Venat versus how they were expecting them to, I think they may have realized they messed up somewhere already.

But seriously, they need to just drop the time travel/causal loop nonsense and never bring it up again.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I like how someone immaturely tagged this thread as "whining" as though we're wrong for having criticism of the story.

What's done is done and there's no changing the story that's already happened, but if the writers are aware of elements that several people did not like, they may avoid making the same mistakes in the future.

Though considering that they seemed surprised by how a lot of people were interpreting/viewing Venat versus how they were expecting them to, I think they may have realized they messed up somewhere already.

But seriously, they need to just drop the time travel/causal loop nonsense and never bring it up again.

What’s ironic is i almost guarantee it was tagged as such by one of the well known people here who take offense to any form of criticism, mainly because that’s very common terminology they use. Ironically they also complain about people derailing/insulting conversations

[Yencat]

What’s ironic is i almost guarantee it was tagged as such by one of the well known people here who take offense to any form of criticism, mainly because that’s very common terminology they use. Ironically they also complain about people derailing/insulting conversations

You can just mouse-over the tags and see who added what, but yeah it's pretty childish taking jabs each other through tags.

[PawPaw]

You can just mouse-over the tags and see who added what, but yeah it's pretty childish taking jabs each other through tags.

Thanks for the tip! Now I know who to utterly ignore going forward.