What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Rulakir]

Worst case scenario, it ends with the WoL singing "So long and thanks for all the fish" as they abandon them to their Hermes/Venat-induced Armageddon.

Unfortunately, due to the stupid time loop I suspect this is what we'll get since Elidibus had to remember us from Elpis to send us there.

I still can't believe there was no alternate timeline/happy ending for the Ancients. I don't care that all the Scions survived at the end, I care that Emet and Hythlodaeus got screwed over and that my character was an active participant in it.

[Skyborne]

Unfortunately, due to the stupid time loop I suspect this is what we'll get since Elidibus had to remember us from Elpis to send us there.

I still can't believe there was no alternate timeline/happy ending for the Ancients. I don't care that all the Scions survived at the end, I care that Emet and Hythlodaeus got screwed over and that my character was an active participant in it.

Meanwhile, I still can't believe they did it. They repackaged Gaius van Baelsar in Disney sparkleprincess skin and got everyone to love, adore, and applaud it. I'll give Gaius some credit, though, he didn't kill billions and learned not to use a big shiny god-machine to force his ideals on people (mostly through it blowing up on his face).

[Rulakir]

I feel like they already did that. It's surprising they considered The Plenty the path of the Ancients when it seems like treachery from within would have sabotaged them long before they were ever able to reach that point with Yoshi-P making it sound like it's just a very Ancient thing to do to destroy civilizations willy nilly.

What irritates me most about Elidibus is we never see his side of events. People are quick to mention we got Zodiark in ShB, but Elidibus' mind was so far gone he only talked about his duty. We learned little about his POV before, during, or after the Final Days. Meanwhile, EW was basically Venat's story. We didn't get both sides, we only got hers especially given that the Ascians were always missing crucial information.

Pandemonium so far has been disappointing. It doesn't seem it's going to change Elidibus' future and I don't care about Lahabrea's untalented son. I hope the whole thing isn't going to just be the Eric show with a Lahabrea cameo at the end. (I don't believe Eric is 'our' Lahabrea, I think he's pre-sundered Claudien.)

[Lauront]

I meant from something besides meeting the Plenty. With regard to that scenario, we can't say how they would've reacted had they been told the truth, since Venat withheld it on her belief that her people couldn't change - it's only with that in mind that they frame it as a probable outcome. I don't think it's a particularly plausible scenario in the first case, but at worst (=they don't take measures to avoid it), it'd mean the death of their civilisation since the star would eventually produce new life. What I found funnier is the fact that it was driven as a scenario by the very same impulses which sundered mankind shares and aims towards... so while it may not hit it in the foreseeable future, they will eventually risk arriving at such an outcome, and certainly any of the outcomes seen on the other dead stars, which are in much closer reach (Ea excepted), IMO. I didn't really take Yoshi P's comment as anything other than him trying to give Venat an out (particularly given how poorly it fit with what else we knew of ancient society), because while the potential for treacherous individuals existed, it'd only really become a problem if the one with knowledge of that further decided to hide it all, forced in part due to the time loop being thrown in for good measure to constrain her actions/distract her with fantasies about some romanticised world. Overall, a very frustrating combination of plot devices.

[KageTokage]

It's a little depressing to admit that I feel a lot less excited about what's coming in the future MSQ after the LL Q&A gave more insight into the thought process of the writers and that they basically didn't expect people to do deep thinking about the story and that they're willing to just drop plot threads on a whim if they decide they don't want to work with them anymore.

Trying to theorycraft about anything that isn't explicitly being hint-hinted by Yoshi or the writers themselves seems like a potential waste of time now in light of those developments.

[Skyborne]

It's a little depressing to admit that I feel a lot less excited about what's coming in the future MSQ after the LL Q&A gave more insight into the thought process of the writers and that they basically didn't expect people to do deep thinking about the story and that they're willing to just drop plot threads on a whim if they decide they don't want to work with them anymore.

Trying to theorycraft about anything that isn't explicitly being hint-hinted by Yoshi or the writers themselves seems like a potential waste of time now in light of those developments.

I've been in a few lore chats that have gone into deep conspiracy theory-style guesses about lore, and the speculation in itself can be a fun timewaster, even if it ends up being 99% wrong... although the delay from ShB -> EW was so long I grew tired of it and dipped out. That Yoshi/the team apparently were surprised that people were wondering about the sundered Ascians (but they themselves have come up with true names/identities for all of them) was kind of 'huh'?

On the plus side, the dissatisfaction has led to me working on my own original stuff more. Even if no one else sees it but me.

[Rulakir]

With regard to that scenario, we can't say how they would've reacted had they been told the truth, since Venat withheld it on her belief that her people couldn't change - it's only with that in mind that they frame it as a probable outcome.

I'm reminded of a Mythbusters episode where they proved that both Jack and Rose could have floated on the door at the end of Titanic. James Cameron said it didn't matter, the script said Jack had to die. This is my fear with the Ancients, that they were always going to be destroyed because that's the singular vision the writer(s) had for them and they were only ever meant to be a plot device for the sundered. The fact that they don't seem interested in devoting any more attention to them (despite being the foundation of the world's lore) adds to that theory, which is a shame since the Ancients' history was the most interesting arc to come out of FFXIV since HW.

Whatever new story they have going forward had better be worth it.

[Pyro2hell3]

I kind of got the impression that the Ancients where a society where questioning the status quo or even wondering if it could even change was heavily discouraged. So after Metion nuked the status quo out of existence all that matter was restoring it. and they' dtoss the entire world into the fire for a plan with any chance or doing no matter how low

[Lauront]

I'd disagree with that. They saw debating as something to be encouraged and participated in it. Hardly a position you get to by discouraging questioning the status quo. What they did discourage was certain types of flaunting of differences, hence the masks and robes. Any species that is used to a measure of stability (humans included) will find the kind of disruption they faced (near total death of their star) very difficult and will attempt to restore things to how they were. It doesn't take much self-reflection to realise we do that too, and would certainly do it in the shoes of the Amaurotines, if we had similar measures to do so at our disposal.

[Pyro2hell3]

I have 2 theories for why the timeline was able to be altered successfully in shadow bringers. Theory one It only worked because there it involve two worlds with their own history i.e there was already 2 separate timelines to begin with. Theory 2 the universe noticed it was warrior of light themselves time traveling and rewrote all the rules of time on the spot out of spite because it hates us