What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[SieyaM]

As an aside, I'll be vague to avoid spoilers since it touches upon another game entirely but having played FFXVI...

I'll say that I enjoyed it for the most part. That being said, it's hard not to see many of the same story issues that afflict FFXIV as well. Everyone and everything ends up revolving around Clive in the same way as how everything in FFXIV ends up revolving around the Warrior of Light.

This is very different to the other Final Fantasy games. My favourite, FFXII, has a character - Drace - who the protagonists never meet directly. She's shown in cut-scenes that take place in the heart of the Empire and advances the story without coming to blows with the protagonists or even speaking with them.

In my second favourite game in the franchise, FFIX, almost all of the characters you play as have their own agendas outside of Zidane. For much of the game, Steiner is wrestling with his loyalty to his Queen and his sworn duties. Freya is looking for her lost love and so on and forth.

It's a real shame. Both FFXIV and FFXVI have interesting characters and factions, but they're stifled by being written not as part of an actual world but just set pieces to feed the player's ego.

It's a stark difference to the likes of Final Fantasy Tactics and The Witcher 3 where you have all these varied characters and factions with their own goals and agendas separate to the protagonist(s).

I guess that's the root of most of my issues with this game's story and if I'm honest I don't see the style changing or the world building maturing.

Twice now CBU3 have promised Ivalice style depth and intrigue but not quite managed to provide it. It rapidly falls away after a certain point, usually when it'd become inconvenient for the protagonists.

Not to be caught agreeing with you too much, but that seems to be a problem with a lot of games lately. Characters have no motivations or goals beyond plot relevance. No one seems to be a whole person they seems to exist solely to advance the plot, they have no dreams or ambitions beyond what the plot demands and have no existence when the plot ends. The scions seem to have no real purpose now that the arc has ended, which is why it's so easy to pick them up at a moments notice when the story demands. They are ostensibly pursuing thier own interests now, but they just kind of fell into these things as they linger on from our previous plot points, it's nothing they have ever had an ambition or desire to do before we met them.

[Theodric]

Not to be caught agreeing with you too much, but that seems to be a problem with a lot of games lately. Characters have no motivations or goals beyond plot relevance. No one seems to be a whole person they seems to exist solely to advance the plot, they have no dreams or ambitions beyond what the plot demands and have no existence when the plot ends. The scions seem to have no real purpose now that the arc has ended, which is why it's so easy to pick them up at a moments notice when the story demands. They are ostensibly pursuing thier own interests now, but they just kind of fell into these things as they linger on from our previous plot points, it's nothing they have ever had an ambition or desire to do before we met them.

What happens if people agree with me 'too much'?

As far as games in general are concerned, it's definitely a problem across the board. I'm starting to tire of many games for the same reason I've grown bored of many movies. After a certain point, it's all flash and no substance. Visually impressive to behold in the moment, sure, but then when you walk away and actually think about what just happened it doesn't really work. I don't even think it's all that difficult to put an interesting, fairly unique twist on a specific trope - many stories are just very clinical and 'safe'.

I think it's telling that Skyrim is still very popular. It encourages players to come up with their own little stories and it offers the player enough agency and choices to sort of go through the game multiple times and explore things from different angles. It's far from the best story ever, but I at least encounter people who know of it and have played it fairly often. The same cannot be said of FFXIV.

[SieyaM]

What happens if people agree with me 'too much'?

As far as games in general are concerned, it's definitely a problem across the board. I'm starting to tire of many games for the same reason I've grown bored of many movies. After a certain point, it's all flash and no substance. Visually impressive to behold in the moment, sure, but then when you walk away and actually think about what just happened it doesn't really work. I don't even think it's all that difficult to put an interesting, fairly unique twist on a specific trope - many stories are just very clinical and 'safe'.

I think it's telling that Skyrim is still very popular. It encourages players to come up with their own little stories and it offers the player enough agency and choices to sort of go through the game multiple times and explore things from different angles. It's far from the best story ever, but I at least encounter people who know of it and have played it fairly often. The same cannot be said of FFXIV.

Skyrim also gives players the proper tools to really build their own story. You can build a family, be a thief a vampire or werewolf or a number of other things and the world reacts accordingly. It's more of the route that older MMOs took as well, where they built a world for you to interact with and build a character in as opposed to XIVs approach which tells a story for you to play a role in. The unfortunate part of the latter is that once the story is told there isn't anything else to do, everything and everyone in that world only serves the purpose of telling that story.

[AwesomeJr44]

What happens if people agree with me 'too much'?

If people reach a certain threshold of agreeing with one of us, they get inducted into the Zodiark Trancer cult lmao

[BRVV]

If people reach a certain threshold of agreeing with one of us, they get inducted into the Zodiark Trancer cult lmao

We are the shadow zodiark money gang, we love casting sunderings!

[kpxmanifesto]

If people reach a certain threshold of agreeing with one of us, they get inducted into the Zodiark Trancer cult lmao

To this day I still have no idea what a Zodiark trancer is.


Edit:

Enjoyed the story up until we get to Elpis then it just falls apart for me. Knowing everything happened because of some depressed ancient and his cringe creation ruined the story for me honestly.

Same. I was really hoping it would be a hostile civilization from a different planet, but I guess that would've taken too much effort to write about.

[VelKallor]

To this day I still have no idea what a Zodiark trancer is.

Doesnt exist. Just another smear to try and discredit others viewpoints.

Knowing everything happened because of some depressed ancient and his cringe creation

entelechy, (from Greek entelecheia), in philosophy, that which realizes or makes actual what is otherwise merely potential.

In this context, Meteion was the gestalt if you like of a mentality, not one mind but thousands, overwhelmed by what they found. Hermes "question" was in itself the mistake, what you have missed is that Meteion was a massive empath, the feelings of thousands of dead worlds concatenated into who she was on Elpis, creating a "realm" that was based on emotion, not reality, the opposite of aether.

He also programmed "our" Meteion with a personality override. Literally nothing she does after she was overpowered by the collective was of her own volition, all the way up to when she manages to separate herself. She was essentially being puppeted by her sisters. She was being controlled by a hivemind that had gone insane and forced itself into her, and she had no way to disconnect herself. None of it was her fault

BlueRogue: two of my family visited a place that shall not be named here, neither of them would ever speak of what they saw or heard, I did ask, but one look into their eyes was enough to tell me I should never have asked. Now take that a step further, add in thousands of minds that are active and powerful empaths, a group mind..go back to the Dead Ends, find the logs that tell of her coming to a world and its destruction because of her.

Further, Meteion herself did not end these civilizations. Her sisters did, or did you forget that Hermes made many more like her and sent them out into the universe to ask other civilizations what they live for? Meteion is a victim here, not ONLY by Hermes' mistakes in his flawed query, but also due to Hermes making Meteion and her sisters a part of a hive mind, meaning Meteion's will is being over powered by her sisters until you are able to weaken them and somewhat free her from their power. Meteion herself is not the issue. Her sisters and Hermes' mistakes are.

An empath in this sense is a being that feels emotions not as we do, but experiences it the way you feel a punch in the gut.

[BRVV]

Doesnt exist. Just another smear to try and discredit others viewpoints.



entelechy, (from Greek entelecheia), in philosophy, that which realizes or makes actual what is otherwise merely potential.

In this context, Meteion was the gestalt if you like of a mentality, not one mind but thousands, overwhelmed by what they found. Hermes "question" was in itself the mistake, what you have missed is that Meteion was a massive empath, the feelings of thousands of dead worlds concatenated into who she was on Elpis, creating a "realm" that was based on emotion, not reality, the opposite of aether.



BlueRogue: two of my family visited a place that shall not be named here, neither of them would ever speak of what they saw or heard, I did ask, but one look into their eyes was enough to tell me I should never have asked. Now take that a step further, add in thousands of minds that are active and powerful empaths, a group mind..go back to the Dead Ends, find the logs that tell of her coming to a world and its destruction because of her.



An empath in this sense is a being that feels emotions not as we do, but experiences it the way you feel a punch in the gut.

I dont think anyone missed the empath or dynamis part. Many just dislike its i am 14 and this is deep cringe level

[AwesomeJr44]

I dont think anyone missed the empath or dynamis part. Many just dislike its i am 14 and this is deep cringe level

Dynamis as it is written in the story is so mind-numbingly dumb. Whenever its used to do something, it reminds me of that one kid at the playground who would always invent new superpowers that instantly counter anything you do, just so that he can always win.

Then again, this forum is virtually all negative, anyone who argues is a 'defender" a "shill"....so please, spare me.

Anyone who is a defender, shill, white knight, or liar is called as such because they have earned the titles for themselves. I have no problem with people who have a positive outlook on the game. I have several friends who have such viewpoints, and their opinion on the game does not impact my desire to be their friend unless they are annoying about it (aka toxic positivity, white knighting, etc). I do have a problem with white knights and liars though. You are just upset that we recognize you for what you are.

[AwesomeJr44]

To this day I still have no idea what a Zodiark trancer is.

The term itself comes from a webcomic where the WoL fights Hydaelyn and uses 'Zodiark Trance'. The art was very good, but people on Reddit started making memes about the comic and eventually the term Zodiark Trancer was born. It's meant to be an insult used against people who like the Ascians/Ancients more than the Scions and/or dislike the current direction of the story. I don't think people actually take the term seriously though. I've referred to myself as one several times, playing into the joke.

Doesnt exist. Just another smear to try and discredit others viewpoints.

It's definitely a term that exists. It's not used in a serious manner very much on the forums themselves, but I've heard that it gets more unironic usage on sites like 4Chan.