What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Lauront]

Conversely, there are people who do enjoy the story, despite its flaws, without needing to be drunk - either figuratively or literally. Such as myself. Was the story perfect? No. It's probably 3rd/4th in order of enjoyment (can't decide if I like EW or SB story more). I enjoy the EW story overall. There were some pacing problems and some problems with how it explained some things. But they weren't problems to a high enough degree to impact my enjoyment of the story. But I also realize that for some people, those problems do impact their ability to enjoy the story.

For context, the particular poster she is responding to is in the habit of coming here (but not only) to loudly proclaim how we're just a tiny minority, how it's the best story ever, that people just wub wub WUB <333, and this then spawns counter-reactions in equal force, while he jumps around the OF trying to constantly berate criticism of the game as "toxic" and just down to a handful of complainers. Thus he garners responses like that. Is this whole dynamic the most productive or conducive to civil discussion? No, but then neither are his posts, which is rather ironic since he is given to frequent tone policing and offering unsolicited advice on how to word posts, which he himself doesn't really follow. Were people to approach this as you do, this would be a lot less common.

[CrownySuccubus]

I mean, it usually doesn't matter how politely someone tries to point out that this thread holds a relatively niche opinion or that, sometimes, the complaints here come off as toxic. The backlash is still just as ferocious.

[Kazhar]

I mean, it usually doesn't matter how politely someone tries to point out that this thread holds a relatively niche opinion or that, sometimes, the complaints here come off as toxic. The backlash is still just as ferocious.

Whenever someone comes to tell us that the opinions here are niche, no matter how polite, the intent is always the same: "you're the minority so you don't matter". Don't act like this is not the case, especially since it usually comes from Striker44 who's a known offender. Or that user just a few post above who's not even hiding it.
So yes, I understand why nobody is having it.

[CrownySuccubus]

Whenever someone comes to tell us that the opinions here are niche, no matter how polite, the intent is always the same: "you're the minority so you don't matter".

I can say for a fact that it's not the case, because I SHARE that opinion but am very much still aware that it's a minority.

An opinion can be valid but still niche.

[Striker44]

Whenever someone comes to tell us that the opinions here are niche, no matter how polite, the intent is always the same: "you're the minority so you don't matter". Don't act like this is not the case, especially since it usually comes from Striker44 who's a known offender. Or that user just a few post above who's not even hiding it.
So yes, I understand why nobody is having it.

Hi

You can definitely scan back through my posts, because I've never said or even attempted to imply that a comment "doesn't matter" just because it's a minority opinion. My main train is to simply note that it is just an opinion and that it's both more polite and more productive to express it as such. Too frequently I see people working themselves up in this echo chamber declaring "the story is bad and the devs don't care" as if it's some objective fact (it's not), and then getting frustrated when it doesn't bring about change. I point out when someone's asking for a sweeping change to something, that's unlikely to happen when it's an opinion only shared by a very small group and would in the process alienate a much larger group.

[Seera1024]

Hi

You can definitely scan back through my posts, because I've never said or even attempted to imply that a comment "doesn't matter" just because it's a minority opinion. My main train is to simply note that it is just an opinion and that it's both more polite and more productive to express it as such. Too frequently I see people working themselves up in this echo chamber declaring "the story is bad and the devs don't care" as if it's some objective fact (it's not), and then getting frustrated when it doesn't bring about change. I point out when someone's asking for a sweeping change to something, that's unlikely to happen when it's an opinion only shared by a very small group and would in the process alienate a much larger group.

The thing is, none of us know what the actual majority opinion is on the story.

Because none of us has talked with a majority of players.

So acting like those who don't like the story are the definite minority is wrong.

Some like the story, some don't like the story. Which portion is the minority is unknown and likely will be unknown for the rest of time. There will be things that would indicate such things, but nothing that we players can access that would tell us anything definite. And I doubt even SE would have data enough to prove which side is the minority.

[SentioftheHoukai]

I mean, it usually doesn't matter how politely someone tries to point out that this thread holds a relatively niche opinion or that, sometimes, the complaints here come off as toxic. The backlash is still just as ferocious.

Doubtful. I mean, how can you call US toxic when things like this:

In the end nothing in this thread really matters. A series of opinions and nothing more. The game will not change. The vast majority of players will love the story regardless. You guys keep this thread alive though if it makes you feel special.

Are being said by those in the pro-Venat/pro-Endwalker camp? Betcha you were one of the updooters!

I mean, really. What exactly is giving you the moral high ground here? Literally the only purpose of this thread is to express our disappointment in the EW story. It's hardly harming anyone, and there are certainly 10 times the amount of positive pro-EW threads so I really don't see what the issue is if it's NOT that negative opinions of Endwalker aren't welcome on the Fora.

Hi

You can definitely scan back through my posts, because I've never said or even attempted to imply that a comment "doesn't matter" just because it's a minority opinion. My main train is to simply note that it is just an opinion and that it's both more polite and more productive to express it as such. Too frequently I see people working themselves up in this echo chamber declaring "the story is bad and the devs don't care" as if it's some objective fact (it's not), and then getting frustrated when it doesn't bring about change. I point out when someone's asking for a sweeping change to something, that's unlikely to happen when it's an opinion only shared by a very small group and would in the process alienate a much larger group.

Huehuehue, how interesting....

Suddenly, it's YOU who've "never said that" and cannot verify evidence or provide proof! Whatever shall you do, Striker-kun?

Seriously, though. It's hardly fair for you to say that now, not when you consistently accuse others of making wild insinuations like being the "Ultimate Arbiters of Good and Bad, Right and Wrong". Where'dya get that phrase anyway, Mr. Animu Lord?

[CrownySuccubus]

Doubtful. I mean, how can you call US toxic when things like this: Are being said by those in the pro-Venat/pro-Endwalker camp?

Because it's not mutually-exclusive? I've had toxic people insult me over my opinions of the game, too. Doesn't change the fact that there have been plenty of cases where I've felt this thread went too far.

Betcha you were one of the updooters!

Nope.

I mean, really. What exactly is giving you the moral high ground here? Literally the only purpose of this thread is to express our disappointment in the EW story. It's hardly harming anyone

Who said anything about "moral high ground"? I don't agree with some of the arguments being made, or (sometimes) the manner in which they're made.

Just because someone agrees that the story is bad doesn't mean that they need to agree with every single complaint made about it.

[Striker44]

Huehuehue, how interesting....

Suddenly, it's YOU who've "never said that" and cannot verify evidence or provide proof! Whatever shall you do, Striker-kun?

Seriously, though. It's hardly fair for you to say that now, not when you consistently accuse others of making wild insinuations like being the "Ultimate Arbiters of Good and Bad, Right and Wrong". Where'dya get that phrase anyway, Mr. Animu Lord?

Hehe, I made that phrase up, but I kinda like it, and it seems to stick in people's minds, so...I'll go with it

And what's "interesting" about a fact? Seriously, go find a post of mine where I claimed someone's opinion didn't matter simply because it was a minority opinion. I notice you didn't yet. I wonder why that is?

The phrase of mine your quoting doesn't do that. It just points out people like to act as if personal opinions are facts. I'll say it again - there's a difference between something "not mattering" and someone getting themselves frustrated more and more because they refuse to consider that their opinion might be widely opposed, and then getting exasperated when the dev team doesn't change their approach to suit them.