What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[aveyond-dreams]

As an aside, is anyone here interested in 'story focused' NFT's?

https://www.siliconera.com/square-en...-focused-nfts/

Granted, the article implies that it is up in the air as to whether or not the Final Fantasy games will be subjected to such a thing though as we no doubt all know, plans change and even a hard no can be reversed on a whim.

It wouldn't surprise me if we're never rid of any prominent characters because of a desire to potentially sell NFT's based around them in the future, though.

Every time this man appears in the news it always seems to be associated with something detrimental to people's gameplay experience, from the gutting of a classic Final Fantasy job like Blue Mage and quite literally dressing up as the posterchild for "Limited jobs!" to the constant pushing of NFTs despite widespread opposition amongst the people he is actually trying to sell products to. Under his watch, SE has produced countless failed projects and if left unchecked would have destroyed all the major brands that the company owns by now. If there is any evidence to suggest that he is fit to continue serving in his position, then I cannot find it. Yoship has already said that if FFXVI does not meet certain sales targets that the mainline Final Fantasy brand is in danger, because the series is no longer a household staple for a generation whose patience was exhausted by the original lackluster release of FFXV and the catastrophic launch of FFXIV 1.0.

Dear God, burgers AGAIN?!

I will continue bringing this scene up because it is the perfect example of the cringeworthy writing style of Endwalker which feels more like a walking simulator on a college campus at times than an expansion at the end of the world. Shadowbringers was exciting to play for me because there was always some level of tension there, with very little filler on par with the trolley sequence. Endwalker however wastes the player's time with multiple long treks in Sharlayan made even slower with the NPC that has to tag along behind you, and 3/4ths of the moon. So many people defend these out of place scenes as "oh but we need to alleviate the tension!" as if there weren't more logical and thematically on point ways to go about doing this.

In Shadowbringers, we would go back to our apartment in the Crystarium and have chats with Ardbert, who provided insightful commentary instead of just vomiting lore in a nonstop stream like the Sharlayans do. In Heavensward and Stormblood, we had our campfire scenes with our party members where we could look up at the sky and reflect on the adventure so far. That is what I expect out of this game - not Uber Eats in a college dorm. I will forever oppose this nonsense because if someone wants those kinds of scenes then they can already go play Persona and have an entire game's worth of them. I feel betrayed after having fallen in love with this game in ARR/Heavensward under the premise that this would be a game with high fantasy and sci-fi elements with a story that takes itself seriously and Endwalker ruined that.

While I have yet to finish Endwalker, thus far the venture to Garlemald is the single biggest let down so far. I realize it goes against the power of friendship and goodie two-shoes to a fault narrative of the main cast but some kupoing catharsis would be nice every once in a while, especially after everything that's happened, everything we've gone through. After everything Garlemald has done, they are finally on the back foot and crumbling from within. Everything before the Telophoroi were introduced in late 5.x seemed like Eorzea was gearing up to counter invade Garlemald and FINALLY dish out some divine retribution, crush their forces, and bring their aggressive people to heel. Lol nope, we're gonna risk sending limited soldiers and supplies behind enemy lines for humanitarian aid to people that up until now have despised us and tormented most of the world for years. Yeah, I know they're almost all tempered, but... they're more or less doing exactly what they were doing before that happened, just for another reason and for another master and I don't have much sympathy for the people that happily cheered on what the Empire was doing while they were the victors. I just really wish Garlemald itself, as a creation of the Ascians, could have been the big bad in need of taking down rather than them resurrecting Zenos, again, and pulling a new villain out of thin air, thus forcing us to rush to the rescue of our second biggest enemy for the last decade.

It's just so disappointing and underwhelming. It makes me wonder what Ishikawa had in mind for the story before she had to rewrite and change so much of it.

A Garlemald expansion would have indeed provided the sort of continued conflicts you express interest in, especially from military leaders who are uncompromising in their ideals and beliefs. I imagine that they would still humanize the Garlean people in different ways but in the end I did enjoy how they went about handling that specific aspect of Garlemald in Endwalker – it was still flawed in my view however because of the ridiculous decision to write Gaius out of the plot instead of trying to tie it together to the Weapons storyline. I think they did a good job of showing how not everyone in the Empire subscribes to the same mindset and the characters we did see were worthy of the screentime they took up.

(Ideally, such content like the trial series etc. should be made mandatory for not only story continuity issues but to enforce a skill check that this playerbase needs in endgame content. Especially if it would act as a filter for players whose aversion to more challenging battle content and Heavensward and Ivalice-style storytelling seems to overlap.)

[Jagick]

A Garlemald expansion would have indeed provided the sort of continued conflicts you express interest in, especially from military leaders who are uncompromising in their ideals and beliefs. I imagine that they would still humanize the Garlean people in different ways but in the end I did enjoy how they went about handling that specific aspect of Garlemald in Endwalker – it was still flawed in my view however because of the ridiculous decision to write Gaius out of the plot instead of trying to tie it together to the Weapons storyline. I think they did a good job of showing how not everyone in the Empire subscribes to the same mindset and the characters we did see were worthy of the screentime they took up.

(Ideally, such content like the trial series etc. should be made mandatory for not only story continuity issues but to enforce a skill check that this playerbase needs in endgame content. Especially if it would act as a filter for players whose aversion to more challenging battle content and Heavensward and Ivalice-style storytelling seems to overlap.)

I do enjoy the shades of gray in that regard, especially in that not every Garlean is the same. More of that would be fun to work with. But arriving in Garlemald and trying to figure out how to not kill the poor, poor tempered Garlean soldiers that would happily fight us to the death even if they weren't tempered? They were laying on the concepts of 'if you kill your enemy you're as bad as them' a little too thick. Sometimes I'd rather the people in the story be a little more emotional and human than just... the good guys. I think that's the biggest issue with FFXIV's story as a whole though, especially in Endwalker. The protagonist has no emotional agency (or agency in general) and everyone acts like robots that have a fleeting emotion and then are immediately over it, regardless of what's happening.

[aveyond-dreams]

I do enjoy the shades of gray in that regard, especially in that not every Garlean is the same. More of that would be fun to work with. But arriving in Garlemald and trying to figure out how to not kill the poor, poor tempered Garlean soldiers that would happily fight us to the death even if they weren't tempered? They were laying on the concepts of 'if you kill your enemy you're as bad as them' a little too thick. Sometimes I'd rather the people in the story be a little more emotional and human than just... the good guys. I think that's the biggest issue with FFXIV's story as a whole though, especially in Endwalker. The protagonist has no emotional agency (or agency in general) and everyone acts like robots that have a fleeting emotion and then are immediately over it, regardless of what's happening.

In this regard, I believe Estinien’s character could’ve been put to better use because I specifically recall him having no qualms about eliminating the immediate threat in front of him. I think he was stopped from doing this or scolded by Y’shtola from doing so, which was frustrating. He is a soldier. Let him act like one. Leave the mercy for characters who are more suited to that sort of thing.

Or better yet, have an argument about whether or not someone should be spared. In Dragon Age, your allies will argue for and against sparing other characters and that includes other party members depending on how shady their origins are. Instead we got Alphinaud and Alisae making an enormous mess of things not 30 minutes after they arrive because they fundamentally didn’t understand how to manage the situation.

Admittedly, I would have preferred for some citizens of Garlemald to survive the conflict that engulfed the capitol but I wonder about the other ways that they could have managed this. FFXV comes to mind, with a far larger imperial capitol that was largely void of any remaining human life. The mission wasn't, "let's save whoever we can" (this task fell to other characters and DLC that was never released), the mission was navigate this place, survive, and get the thing you came here for. I know it's a stretch to compare the Gralea segment in that game to something like Resident Evil but it's about as close as you can get in Final Fantasy to that.

We got a Garlemald zone whose goal was to humanize, not to necessarily show off all the creepiness and dark underbelly of the city like how people understandably may have wanted. The weapons storyline does do some of this, but it's simply not the same as the dark treck through Zegnautus Keep or the discovery of the clones in Episode Prompto, only to watch them disperse into miasma not long after. They are both dark segments, but the sense of tension is higher in FFXV's case compared to Endwalker's Garlemald.

When imagining what kind of zones a Garlemald expansion may have had, I picture the following:

1. A former territory in a warmer climate where "magic vs magitek" is put on center stage. A fallen kingdom like Dalmasca for example, and all the associated political storylines. Anima and the tempering is introduced somewhere around here.

2. Those of us who have played FFXII and FFXIII may remember several enormous airships where significant portions of the plot took place. Some as huge as Sky Fortress Bahamut, what about a zone where there are several of these large airships that you work through in order to reach the largest in the centre? Basically the Sea of Clouds/the Churning Mists, except instead of islands you have the ships.

3. Think about the carnival from NieR Automata or Nautilus from FFXIII. The empire’s “resort” area, possibly the end result of their occupation of Locus Amoenus, where we could see a display of festivities and decadence. Something like the holographic parade from FFXIII that depicted the War of Transgression, as an effective way of delivering imperial propaganda. Magitek battles against such a backdrop would prove interesting, and adds some much needed color to a nation that many players believe is just black and red.

4. A “battlefield” and when I say this I don’t mean a bland, boring design like Bozja with just trenches and burning wreckage. Bloodstained mountains and geography on par with Coerthas – all while the city lights loom in the distance. For added dramatic effect, perhaps a neighbouring beast tribe may summon a giant primal that fell in battle nearby, making it a landmark of the region.

5. The outer capitol, where a segment similar to Endwalker’s Garlemald segment would have played out. People try to help the Garleans to varying results, as the mystery of Anima and the tempering reaches very high tension.

6. The innermost segment of the capitol where the imperial palace stands. Instead of the Tower of Babil being a structure that it was built and twisted into, it could have simply referred to the highest spire of the building like in the case of Syrcus Tower being the tallest part of the Crystal Tower. The final showdown and reveal of Anima, etc.

[Jagick]

In this regard, I believe Estinien’s character could’ve been put to better use because I specifically recall him having no qualms about eliminating the immediate threat in front of him. I think he was stopped from doing this or scolded by Y’shtola from doing so, which was frustrating. He is a soldier. Let him act like one. Leave the mercy for characters who are more suited to that sort of thing.

Or better yet, have an argument about whether or not someone should be spared. In Dragon Age, your allies will argue for and against sparing other characters and that includes other party members depending on how shady their origins are. Instead we got Alphinaud and Alisae making an enormous mess of things not 30 minutes after they arrive because they fundamentally didn’t understand how to manage the situation.


*Snip for brevity*

So many good ideas here and I'm sad we basically just got Diet-Coerthas. I'm also frustrated that we keep allowing Alphinaud and Alisaie (especially Alphinaud) to be in charge of absolutely anything. I get that they're beloved characters by many but how many screw ups is too many for these literal children?

Alphinaud in particular has been making massive mistakes that impact every single person around him over and over again since A Realm Reborn. The same story beat with him trying to do this grand, good thing and taking the lead in doing so is used time and time again with the same result: He screws up and everyone suffers immensely. People talk about his character growth and yes, him realizing his flaws and mistakes is definitely growth but what does it matter when he continues to be an arrogant, ignorant, and self-certain fool that makes the same mistakes due to his own hubris time and time again? His sister is similar, but a little more bullheaded.

I'm probably complaining too much, but I just wish the writing in this game didn't cheesy anime-trope away everything bad that happens or prevent the characters from acting or reacting like actual human beings. Unconditional forgiveness, pacifism and benevolence to an objective fault, and the power of love and friendship overcomes all. Just get so tired of being told the same exact story over and over in this game, even if there are some absolutely GEMS spread throughout.

Addendum: And now three Garlean refugees are seriously wounded and two (including a child) are now dead as a direct result of the actions these two took. This is also of course after the writing requires the WoL to be an absolute ignoramus and not be even remotely suspicious about the voice coming from the building all these people just inhabited while buying the obvious lie that it's an animal that somehow got inside in the few minutes we've been standing at the only entrance. Anyway, these people go from calling us savages to our faces to abruptly seeming to trust us and the twins IMMEDIATELY lower their guard. Not only that, but Alisaie immediately abandons Alphinaud to look after all of them (three of them) alone to follow me across the ice fields just because she is apparently good at carrying barrels. This leads to, as anyone with a braincell could have guessed, the garlean civilians who do not trust us attempting to jump and kill Alphinaud while the ones under direct supervision flee into the wilderness from the foreign invaders and die as a result while the others are severely injured, put to sleep, and then hidden in an unheated building while we return to camp?

Seriously. Who wrote this and thought it was good? And why the absolute KUPO are we letting these children do anything other than stay home and help Tataru with chores and basic logistics? I have not been this frustrated about bad writing and a lack of agency since a realm reborn. It's difficult to be emotionally invested when the tragedy and trauma is dependent upon the incompetence of characters who should otherwise be smarter than this by now, even more so when you're forced to go along with and accept this terrible decisions and story beats when an alternative or the correct course of action is clear to anyone of sane mind. I'd even accept a dialogue option to tell these characters off or at least disagree with them even if we still have to go along with everything anyway. Catharsis. Please.