What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Elesh]

This conversation is hilarious.

Everyone's acting like they know, with exact detail, every bit of what happened between the end of our arc in Elpis and the Sundering. We don't. We don't know what Venat tried. WE just know that she was unable to convince people not to rely on Zodiark as if it was a panacea. That's all we know. We don't know how much info she tried to give them, or how little. We don't know what she told them and what she didn't. We don't know what she tried or what they did. We have none of that information.

But you're acting like she just... did nothing until it was time to go kill everyone. Without any actual indication that that was the case. And then you're taking your OWN BASELESS TIMELINE OF EVENTS and using that to make a judgement call about how you feel about the rest of the story.

For all you know, maybe she TRIED to tell people exactly what happened, and everyone was just like 'oh great, the former member of the convocation's off her rocker. Let's put her on a farm somewhere so she can have peace' - that's probably not likely. But her sitting around and not doing ANYTHING is also equally unlikely. So the reality is probably somewhere in between 'her being laughed at like a crazy person' and 'her sitting around doing nothing the whole time'

We really don't know.

But I know this isn't going to change any of your minds about your 'she did nothing and then committed genocide' fanfics of the situation, so I'll bow out here. Have a nice day.

[Lauront]

The thing is though….we did all of this already. It’s boring and stale. We fought him solo, numerous times including the final fight. He was so content that he took his own life. Why bring him back only to repeat literally the same exact story line that added absolutely nothing to the overall story arc besides take up time that could’ve been spent towards yknow….the two main deities this arc has revolved around?

Plus there's other characters who like to brawl, who I'd much sooner brawl with rather than him. He's better than the Scions, but this stuff about being some mirror etc.? Maybe one of those you find in a fun house.

[RyuDragnier]

The Ancients whipped up Zodiark with virtually no prep time. A Creation so powerful, he kept Eitherys shielded for 12k years, while sundered at that.

Imagine what they could do if they weren't hindered by a lack of information.

DID they just whip up Zodiark with no prep time? Or was he already a concept they pulled out and modified to fit this purpose? Unanswered questions here, hopefully answered in Pandaemonium (probably not).

[Xirean]

I actually disagree with this assessment.

I enjoyed the fact that the story made me give a measure of respect to a character I once disliked a great deal. I like the fact that, by Endwalker, he is actually pretty unimportant/not really a priority to the WoL - he realises this and decides to not let that bother him. Whilst everyone else is pondering the meaning of happiness, here is a guy who found it and knows that all he needs to learn is how to reach it. And he does, because when Alisaie calls him out, he listens.

And he was right about us, when he identified our 'Adventurer' roots. and recognized that we were heroes through circumstance and a need to do the right thing, rather than choice, and the way we fight reflects that. I feel the only answer that wasn't dishonest was "That, I can't deny" (and the grin that my character gave when she said that is one of best things my character has ever done) when he tells us he knows what we are.

I have to add that I truly enjoyed the fight. We were never really on equal terms with him until this fight, and due to that he truly doesn't hold anything back. He pours everything he is in that fight and so do we. Two souls burning their absolute hottest and brightest - the greatest joy Zenos has ever known and the only joy he can ever share, in stark contrast to the theme of despair that the 'zone' had been about.

Every time a story forces me to "respect" a character. I start hating them. I was a fan of Zenos in StB, but here..... Here I want to do nothing more than delete his mouth and give him cement shoes. His whole character arc this expansion was effectively learning how to say please. That's not a good arc and that's not a good character. The dude ripped my character out of her body against her will then nearly killed her friends/allies with her own body. There is no coming back from that in my eyes. Also they didn't even fully lean into the horror that he provides. He doesn't actually kill anyone, there's no consequences to anything he does except Zodiark being let out, which there's a million ways that could have been achieved without his presence at all.

You mention that in your eyes the only right choice is "That, I cannot deny." How about if I said screw that? Kill him and end his BS OR not fight him at all and walk away like he said he would let us do.

I would have rather he stay dead the first time.

[KizuyaKatogami]

This conversation is hilarious.

Everyone's acting like they know, with exact detail, every bit of what happened between the end of our arc in Elpis and the Sundering. We don't. We don't know what Venat tried. WE just know that she was unable to convince people not to rely on Zodiark as if it was a panacea. That's all we know. We don't know how much info she tried to give them, or how little. We don't know what she told them and what she didn't. We don't know what she tried or what they did. We have none of that information.

But you're acting like she just... did nothing until it was time to go kill everyone. Without any actual indication that that was the case. And then you're taking your OWN BASELESS TIMELINE OF EVENTS and using that to make a judgement call about how you feel about the rest of the story.

For all you know, maybe she TRIED to tell people exactly what happened, and everyone was just like 'oh great, the former member of the convocation's off her rocker. Let's put her on a farm somewhere so she can have peace' - that's probably not likely. But her sitting around and not doing ANYTHING is also equally unlikely. So the reality is probably somewhere in between 'her being laughed at like a crazy person' and 'her sitting around doing nothing the whole time'

We really don't know.

But I know this isn't going to change any of your minds about your 'she did nothing and then committed genocide' fanfics of the situation, so I'll bow out here. Have a nice day.

We do know though. We know for a fact she didn’t tell them about Meteion because Emet says he doesn’t know what caused the final days in ShB. We can infer she didn’t tell her followers that she’d be consuming their souls or what exactly the sundering would do because they say that they’ll miss her….can’t really miss her if your souls are consumed guys. You’re bowing out of the conversation because you know you’re wrong, you know Venat’s wrong, and you just can’t handle saying “maybe you’re right,” so you run away.

[OhNooo]

Or better yet, dooming the entirety of the universe because you, fine Overseer of Elpis, are the only person with feelings and totally not someone with their head firmly entrenched up their buttocks most if not all of the time. A veritable first step for mankind!

Hermes: "No one understands me. I'm so alone...." *is antisocial and doesn't make any effort to reach out to anyone or understand anyone else* "Noooo don't you dare kill this violent predator! They deserve to live at the cost of the other species they killed!" *doesn't mourn for all the species the predator decimated*

*cue Linkin Park background music CRAWLINGGG IN MY SKINNNNNNN, THESE WOUNDS THEY WILL NOT HEEEEEAAAALLLLLLL*


"Can't pass my test if you don't know the rules amirite. Humanity deserves to die anyway." - Hermes probably

[Rulakir]

Everyone's acting like they know, with exact detail, every bit of what happened between the end of our arc in Elpis and the Sundering. We don't. We don't know what Venat tried. WE just know that she was unable to convince people not to rely on Zodiark as if it was a panacea. That's all we know. We don't know how much info she tried to give them, or how little. We don't know what she told them and what she didn't. We don't know what she tried or what they did. We have none of that information.

Did you watch the LL Q&A? A lot of what we know comes directly from Yoshi-P, Ishikawa, and Oda.

Kizuya has the right of it though. Based on the information presented in both ShB and EW, Venat didn't tell anyone about the root cause of the Final Days (or arguably the sundering). Even the Watcher, her own minion tasked with overseeing Zodiark, doesn't know.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Hermes: "No one understands me. I'm so alone...." *is antisocial and doesn't make any effort to reach out to anyone or understand anyone else* "Noooo don't you dare kill this violent predator! They deserve to live at the cost of the other species they killed!" *doesn't mourn for all the species the predator decimated*

*cue Linkin Park background music CRAWLINGGG IN MY SKINNNNNNN, THESE WOUNDS THEY WILL NOT HEEEEEAAAALLLLLLL*


"Can't pass my test if you don't know the rules amirite. Humanity deserves to die anyway." - Hermes probably

And our lovely qween Venat goes along with his shitty test because......idk she crazy.

[Teraq]

And our lovely qween Venat goes along with his shitty test because......idk she crazy.

Um because she's an Ancient, sweetie, duh. That's just what these kooky old Ancients did, murder by negligence (those attempts to warn people sure seemed half-assed given the results we know of rather than what she told us she would try doing) to prove a point about humanity.

[not_ya_wify]

Don't you see that the ones going through all that suffering have a much better existence because they're better equipped to deal with suffering since they deal with it all the time, whereas the first person I mentioned lives a comfortable life with no hardships. Just unbearable! They need to at least have a couple of diseases or maybe a little poverty in their life. I mean look at Sisyphus, one must imagine he's overjoyed:

I just realized this story is basically Venat telling us to pick ourselves up by our bootstraps and that people can't get houses because of Avocado toast.

And here I thought it was just trauma porn...