What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Theodric]

The main reason I have very little sympathy for Hermes is because his expectations were completely unreasonable. He was in a position where he could have at least advocated for change and was due to be promoted to an even higher position.

We see through the Elpis side quests that the Ancients are constantly taking feedback into account and improving the methods of research and the process of creation magic. He's held in high regard by many - so it's not like he would just be ignored.

The same can be said of Venat. A former member of the Convocation isn't going to be dismissed and she wasn't lacking in ways to prove that something wasn't quite right. We also know that Emet was aware that his memory had been wiped and that even when faced with a story he found hard to swallow, it was in his nature to investigate rather than risk Etheirys and his people's continued existence.

After all, Venat only needed to go and send Emet to go and speak with the numerous Ancients who saw Emet, Hythlodaeus, Venat, Hermes and the player character together to prove that something didn't quite add up.

Much like the caricature worlds in the Dead Ends, Venat refusing to have such a conversation is little more than a lazy way to try and give the illusion that the Sundering was 'necessary', as if anyone is obligated to go along with the whims of the very same nutter who decided to stand by idly and allow an apocalypse to strike her supposedly 'beloved' people.

It doesn't matter whether the writers, streamers or even many players fawn over 'mommy'. Since thankfully not everybody is incapable of putting two and two together and realising that the entire situation was completely avoidable and almost entirely Venat's fault. With the much cherished 'suffering' leading to pretty much all of the game's darkest moments thus far.

Of course, many of the same players fawning over Venat will gleefully declare that their precious self-inserts are 'heroes' for stopping whatever threat arises in the story at any given time. Which in itself is bizarre and rather amusing given the complete inaction of Venat.

[aveyond-dreams]

I’m someone who found Venat appealing but I certainly didn’t refer to her as “mommy” - it is possible to both find a character attractive while fundamentally disagreeing with their actions. The leadup to her becoming a goddess should have been explored and witnessed on screen. Initially I had pictured her own group’s members sacrificing themselves one by one to safeguard her as she completed the ritual, or fighting off abominations until she was the last one standing. I would have liked to have seen a transformation sequence, and perhaps dialogue between her and Zodiark prior to their battle.

Think about the leadup prior to to Yotsuyu becoming Tsukyomi. We saw her in a very emotionally vulnerable moment prior to her parents showing up-Venat should have had a similar scene that would have allowed us to feel more sympathy for decisions despite the loose base on which they were made. In any case, looking back I know am not sure who was worse. Yotsuyu for becoming a goddess out of grief and revenge, or Venat for becoming a goddess while believing her ridiculous delusions of grandeur and subjecting humanity to another “test.”

[Theodric]

I'm not suggesting that everybody who likes Venat only does so because of the 'mommy' thing, but enough players are flooding chats with it - including major streamers - that it's easy to see that on many fronts Venat is being given a free pass based on her appearance and mannerisms alone. Though I wouldn't consider Venat to be one of my favourite characters, during the Elpis segments I did find her to be likeable enough. It's everything as of the end of Elpis and outside of it that soured me on the character.

Quite simply because I don't agree with the idea that the Ancients 'needed' to just roll over and allow their own genocide. Much in the same way as how I disagree with the idea of the Garleans being treated as a nuisance for daring to try and put themselves on top to avoid their own genocide in a world that - thanks to Venat - now revolves around 'might makes right'.

At the end of the day, the agency of numerous characters and factions - including Venat herself - was simply sacrificed in an obvious effort to try and excuse the atrocities that were inflicted upon the Ancients. There was never really a route to justify the Sundering with the reasoning embraced in Endwalker. Having it be an accident rather than a deliberate act would have mitigated some of the problems and allowed Venat to take the Sundered under her wing...but as it stands, she stood by idly and allowed an apocalypse to kill large swathes of her own people, murdered all but three of those who survived and then allowed all manner of torment and strife to befall her supposedly beloved 'children'.

It's almost an insult to the intelligence of those capable of rational thought for the expectation to be 'just roll with it', in what readily advertises itself as a story driven game. It's starting to remind of how World of Warcraft's development team would accuse people of 'thinking too hard' whenever someone questioned why a major character had a completely different personality and set of beliefs on a patch by patch basis.

[HisShadowX]

I felt insulted as someone whose playing since the beginning of ARR that the entire world events revolved around a massive depressive dude and his Kawaii Anime Doll in which the Kawaii Anime Doll destroyed the world and caused all this.

Then I started to think and man its pretty deep I think the massive depressive guy represents the weeb Fan base and their love for anime kawaii love dolls. Its like when Bill Shatner insulted his fans by telling them to get a life. Pretty much we learn a Massive Depressives souls in this game will always come back to be massive depressives. I'm shocked more of you people didn't feel insulted

[Caurcas]

Hermes is just a product of his society. A self-centered, self-important coward.

[Minnel]

The only thing I absolutely hated about the story was how they handled Zodiark. Everything else was pretty good, if a bit hammy, slightly 'power of friendship'-y, with a pinch of plot armour and a cup of macguffin.

Bake at 350 degrees for 40 hours, garnish with the death of another beloved character, and serve hot.

Yeah, I think they really did Zodiark dirty. He was this epic evil-god figure, until EW hit and he became a muppet.

[Ixon]

Honestly, after watching Pyromancer go through the Elpis scenes again, I can't help but think that Venat AGREED with Hermes's test to an extent. Her own personal concerns with how the ancients viewed the world and the fear of the world turning into those that Metion mentioned. Even in the sundering cut scene when she confronts a group of ancients, in an almost pleading and bargaining sort of way, she tell them "if we would live, we must accept it(despair) as our constant companion". When they denied it, they failed not only Hermes and Metion's test, but her own, and thus were sundered. Especially knowing through our stories we tell her that the humanity that existed in the future thrived even despite the grievous amounts of despair and disasters. IF the future of all Utopia's is to eventually all die out like those Metion discovered, then it was assumed the best bet was to destroy Utopia. Kick Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden so to speak. Not saying it's right, or justified, just a point that sits well in my head cannon.

[PawPaw]

Honestly, after watching Pyromancer go through the Elpis scenes again, I can't help but think that Venat AGREED with Hermes's test to an extent.

Of course she did. You can see that with the mental gymnastics she performs at the end of Elpis to justify doing absolutely nothing to help her people.

[Ixon]

Of course she did. You can see that with the mental gymnastics she performs at the end of Elpis to justify doing absolutely nothing to help her people.

I don't think it's mental gymnastics if it fits her character though.

[Skyborne]

Honestly, after watching Pyromancer go through the Elpis scenes again, I can't help but think that Venat AGREED with Hermes's test to an extent. Her own personal concerns with how the ancients viewed the world and the fear of the world turning into those that Metion mentioned. Even in the sundering cut scene when she confronts a group of ancients, in an almost pleading and bargaining sort of way, she tell them "if we would live, we must accept it(despair) as our constant companion". When they denied it, they failed not only Hermes and Metion's test, but her own, and thus were sundered. Especially knowing through our stories we tell her that the humanity that existed in the future thrived even despite the grievous amounts of despair and disasters. IF the future of all Utopia's is to eventually all die out like those Metion discovered, then it was assumed the best bet was to destroy Utopia. Kick Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden so to speak. Not saying it's right, or justified, just a point that sits well in my head cannon.

That she did, and she was entirely focused on the Plenty. I don't know if I would say that the first and second worlds in the Dead Ends were utopias... and the dragons, while it sounds like they had nice lives from what they described, also went out from a long and protracted war against robots from space. Essentially, it was all confirmation bias for her.

I don't know what it is with streamers getting hoodwinked (tempered? :P) by the post-Elpis cutscene. Even ones who echo our sentiments leading up to that point suddenly turn heel and become #TeamHydaelyn. The only exception I've seen was Zepla, who was thoroughly pissed off at the end of Elpis, but has since changed her tune. They may have tried to portray Venat as some sort of tragic heroine, but anyone with a lick of sense would know she brought that upon herself unnecessarily and at the cost of everyone else.

I don't really watch streamers save a couple that I can stand, and they don't touch FFXIV or any other MMO with a ten foot pole so dunno the feeling. Still, these characters are heavily pushed by the narrative of the story and overall the twitch/reddit/so on crowd loves her so it makes sense they would be influenced into conforming with audience expectations to keep viewers around even if they feel differently in private. That, and you know how people in the great community act when they're sure they can't get in trouble... can't blame them for kneeling.