What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[EaraGrace]

I don’t think anyone here expects to really change anyones mind. This is just purely a thread to give our opinions on the expansion and what we think it did wrong. People are free to disagree, but as such is in a public forum or any debate space, people should be prepared to face opposition.I don’t think anyone has really claimed the things you’re saying they have about you.

I’ve had someone compare me with rape apologists, Theodorics compared enjoying Endwalker as being like preferring fast food over steak, people repeatedly discuss defenses of Venat as just simping. I’ve got beef with that, as I would expect anyone to.

As far as Theodric’s comment goes, i don’t really see it as insincere. People in the community do call her Crystal mom or Crystal mommy, he’s simply using the same terminology as them. Certainly isn’t any worse than the people who went around calling Villain fans genocide sympathizers or nazi etc. Of which people never really denounced or commented on. It’s only now that certain characters being under fire is an issue.

Ah so I’m not allowed to disagree when those self same people do what they criticized others for. Got it.

Either way i suppose in the end my point is this, people are free to like or dislike whatever characters they want. As for your earlier comment though, i find it a bit amusing you act like the group of people in this thread ruined the forums discussion threads, and not accepting that you and the people that share your ideas aren’t also a part of the problem, what with the passive aggressiveness, death threats, and so on and so forth.

I wasn’t party to the death threats nor were they at all justifiable. But I will say until I’m hoarse that passive aggressiveness given only came in response to passive aggressiveness received. Doesn’t make it right of course, but when you’ve been on the receiving end of insults since SHB by the same people in this very thread I do have to make my displeasure known.

This seems incredibly hypocritical, especially when you say right before that criticism "ruining" the official forums is merely voicing disagreement.

The lore sub forum is pretty much dead, and we have this thread now brigading Reddit discussions. Forgive me for having problems with that. I accept that my arguing did not help in the slightest and contributed to the flames. But I didn’t start the fire, and I won’t agree to disagree on that.

[kpxmanifesto]

The lore sub forum is pretty much dead, and we have this thread now brigading Reddit discussions. Forgive me for having problems with that.

Having a discussion about the writing of the story is online harassment to you?? What in the world? If you honestly believe its brigading on reddit then you need to report it. Reddit has five rules. "No brigading" is rule #2.

[EaraGrace]

Having a discussion about the writing of the story is online harassment to you?? What in the world? If you honestly believe its brigading on reddit then you need to report it. Reddit has five rules. "No brigading" is rule #2.

Please tell me where I said harassment. Words do have meanings.

And sure I’ll by all means follow up on doing that

I've touched on the subject of 'insults' before:

This is, again, a statement I agree with which you seem disinclined to follow through on. I’m just asking you not reduce everyone who disagrees to Venat simps. Is that really too much to ask for?

I believe I said that would happen when people in lore were complaining about the EW debate threads and hoping they'd stop so things could 'return to normal', which apparently means no or low activity. The most vocal about it were usually the most active in those threads too.

The lore forum survived without Venat threads for about a decade, it wasn’t moving on that killed it. It was how utterly toxic those threads became over time.

Not directed at you specifically, but I find it bizarre how upset people get because there's one megathread in general discussion where people can discuss their dislike of EW. Reddit has been one huge echo chamber of positivity until relatively recently and that cannot realistically be blamed on anyone here. I've heard Twitter and Discord are no better. It just comes across as no one is allowed to be critical of it anywhere.

You state a position, people will disagree. Just as you have the right to dislike something, I have the right to say no I think it makes sense and isn’t bad. That isn’t what’s killing discussion. And the fact that you see a thread reduced to more shitflinging and another thread that never got above single digit upvotes as something wholly positive is telling. It seems like there’s not much interest in discussing these things and more interest in making everyone agree with you.

[kpxmanifesto]

Please tell me where I said harassment. Words do have meanings.

And sure I’ll by all means follow up on doing that

Brigading is a form of online harassment. You should probably bother to look up the word before trying to argue the meaning of it lol. Also, by all means report it and tell me how that goes.

[Rulakir]

Were you all aware that the people who don't like Venat have driven out all the "pro-Venat" or "not-pro-Zodiark" people from the Official Forums? Apparently we have a super-secret Discord that we use to organize.

A while ago this thread was suddenly brigaded by a bunch of Venat defenders and I heard it was because someone had posted the link in one of their Discords. :P

The lore sub forum is pretty much dead, and we have this thread now brigading Reddit discussions. Forgive me for having problems with that.

I believe I said that would happen when people in lore were complaining about the EW debate threads and hoping they'd stop so things could 'return to normal', which apparently means no or low activity. The most vocal about it were usually the most active in those threads too.

Not directed at you specifically, but I find it bizarre how upset people get because there's one megathread in general discussion where people can discuss their dislike of EW. Reddit has been one huge echo chamber of positivity until relatively recently and that cannot realistically be blamed on anyone here. I've heard Twitter and Discord are no better. It just comes across as no one is allowed to be critical of it anywhere.

[Kozh]

(As for The Sound itself coming from the earth: I had just presumed it was Meteion's scream bouncing off the ground. I realise this is the most boring theory ever, but it's what we've got so far, and I doubt they're going to go back to that.)

Don't remind me please, I'm still angry that The Sound turns out is just some broken twitter bird (made by a totally-fit-for-chief-position guy) screaming at us. I remember going into quite a deep rabbit hole discussing the Sound back in ShB, ranging from simple "it's jenova", to "it's Pandaemonium", to something something with deep symbolic meaning. Same with how "zodiark weave a new reality", when it's actually just "put aether bubble" and "jump start the stagnated etheirys's aether" (I mean, it's still an incredible feat, but very much less cool).

I’ve had someone compare me with rape apologists, Theodorics compared enjoying Endwalker as being like preferring fast food over steak, people repeatedly discuss defenses of Venat as just simping. I’ve got beef with that, as I would expect anyone to.

And we have people constantly comparing us to genocide apologist, colonize apologist, people repeteadly discuss defense of Emet as just simping and lacking real-life morality, people who openly insults and to some extent using death-threat. All of this ever since day one since ShB dropped. Even way before if we change it into discussion regarding Gaius or other villains.


See, here's the thing, we make our defense (or sometimes attack) on a fictional character, you know, someone who isn't real. But then come people attacking us, real people, over some fictional character. Which one is worse?

I don't deny that at this point, both sides can be pretty toxic and stubborn. We may never able to reach compromise more likely (just like venat's and zodiark's faction lol), but why are you surprised when one side keep poking the hornet nest?

The lore sub forum is pretty much dead, and we have this thread now brigading Reddit discussions.

You ask people to stop whenever there's a little bit of hydaelyn vs zodiark debate outside of that one thread, people comply to that, then you blame us for making the lore forum dead? There's a bazillion ff14 lore that had nothing to do with Hydaely/Zodiark, and even if some people go rogue and post irrelevant debate on that threads, you can just ignore them? Go make your own lore threads if you're that concerned about it being dead lol. Lore forum being low traffic isn't weird, pretty much happen in other place too. Even lore discussion discord devolves into arguing over morality etc just like here or reddit, because when there's nothing new added, what should people discuss that haven't been done?