What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Lauront]

I thought this expansion had brilliant storytelling as did millions of others. Maybe you just have bad taste.

The game barely has over a million players. So where are you getting these "millions"? Trying to gaslight people with this sort of tactic is in poor taste.

[Caurcas]

I thought this expansion had brilliant storytelling as did millions of others. Maybe you just have bad taste.

Consume product. Enjoy product. Wait for next product.

[Rulakir]

I don't mind them usually, though I've never been a fan of excessive sympathy to the point where the story practically begs you to forgive them (literally every demon slayer villain). Emet, like Ilberd doesnt care what you think of him and doesnt ask for sympathy. But Hermes jumping from this incredibly compassionate man with an unparalleled lust for life to complete nihilist with the story painting him as a victim of his surroundings instead of the deranged madman he really is is really something.

One of my complaints about EW is the amount of gaslighting with Hermes and Venat. I'm watching them both act in morally questionable to reprehensible ways, but the narrative is insisting they're good people we should like. A lot of the writing was extremely heavy handed this time and dialog options for the player to express anything negative were suspiciously lacking. It's been awhile since I've consumed media where I felt I was being told what to think and feel rather than the story itself bringing me to that conclusion.

[SieyaM]

One of my complaints about EW is the amount of gaslighting with Hermes and Venat. I'm watching them both act in morally questionable to reprehensible ways, but the narrative is insisting they're good people we should like. A lot of the writing was extremely heavy handed this time and dialog options for the player to express anything negative were suspiciously lacking. It's been awhile since I've consumed media where I felt I was being told what to think and feel rather than the story itself bringing me to that conclusion.

I really felt the undying love and devotion to Hydaelyn and Venat was especially heavy this expansion. I may be misremembering but I thought in ShB there was some question to whether or not Hydaelyn really is the benevolent goddess we believe or if we are just tempered by her to believe so, which if there was is immediately swept aside by constant reassurances that she is in fact just the most giving gracious and selfless entity ever known. I really felt let down by the story telling here when they went with the obvious Hydaelyn is the ultimate good vs the ultimate evil (Meteion in this case as our 11th hour evil).

[Nilroreo]

One of my complaints about EW is the amount of gaslighting with Hermes and Venat. I'm watching them both act in morally questionable to reprehensible ways, but the narrative is insisting they're good people we should like. A lot of the writing was extremely heavy handed this time and dialog options for the player to express anything negative were suspiciously lacking. It's been awhile since I've consumed media where I felt I was being told what to think and feel rather than the story itself bringing me to that conclusion.

Completely agree.

Bit of a tangent, but for anyone whose read Attack on Titan(Heavily recommend it btw), one thing I love about its story is how its careful not to take a hard stance on any side of its primary conflict through to the very end. It acknowledges that despite there being people that stand to benefit from genocide, whether the perpetrator is right or wrong for doing what they felt was necessary is ultimately up to the individual, and naturally, there is no shortage of people who would vilify them for it. Even when characters are spared from tragedy, they're capable of looking towards their savior and recognize that they're no saint but might in fact just be a monster that just happened to take their side.

The main protagonist (or antagonist depending on how you choose to view things) of that story is what I wanted Hydaelyn to become. I never wanted her to be the final big bad, nor did I expect it. What I wanted, NOT expected, but wanted was her to be was someone willing to go to extreme lengths to ensure we benefit from the world she cultivated, even if there are those who would brand her a devil for it. But instead, we get someone whose actions are excused by all, including by Emet who by all logic should've been furious that such crucial information has been withheld from them for seemingly no reason. It's one thing for him to accept loss, it's another for him to accept that this was the only way when we know for a fact that there was ATLEAST one other path that might've granted different results. Hydaelyn is a perpetrator of suffering and despair, but the sad part is that nobody other than her actually cares, and that's just boring.

[Rulakir]

I really felt the undying love and devotion to Hydaelyn and Venat was especially heavy this expansion. I may be misremembering but I thought in ShB there was some question to whether or not Hydaelyn really is the benevolent goddess we believe or if we are just tempered by her to believe so, which if there was is immediately swept aside by constant reassurances that she is in fact just the most giving gracious and selfless entity ever known. I really felt let down by the story telling here when they went with the obvious Hydaelyn is the ultimate good vs the ultimate evil (Meteion in this case as our 11th hour evil).

You're not misremembering. Hydaelyn had been portrayed as shady since ARR when she told Minfilia to kill herself. It culminated in ShB when we discover she's a primal and responsible for destroying the Ancient world. EW honestly felt like they decided to subvert expectations. It's not that I thought Hydaelyn would ever be portrayed as pure evil, but I also never thought the opposite would be true and yet here we are.

But instead, we get someone whose actions are excused by all, including by Emet who by all logic should've been furious that such crucial information has been withheld from them for seemingly no reason. It's one thing for him to accept loss, it's another for him to accept that this was the only way when we know for a fact that there was ATLEAST one other path that might've granted different results. Hydaelyn is a perpetrator of suffering and despair, but the sad part is that nobody other than her actually cares, and that's just boring.

I still haven't finished AoT. I keep meaning to at some point. I left off somewhere in the Marley arc.

Venat essentially gets off the hook because the sundering had the added 'benefit' of memory loss, so there's conveniently no one left alive who remembers or cares to admonish her. Emet not condemning her seemed extremely out of character, especially after the Hades fight when he was anguished over the WoL using the power that destroyed their world.

[Caurcas]

I agree with the end point of the story and Venat's goal and philosophy. However, I will concede that how we got there was told quite poorly at points. I think this is due to practical issues, such as them shoving two expansions into one and truncating alot of plot. However, I also feel like in what we got never explores at length what point it's trying to make. The biggest example of this is Hermes. The point of his character is how individuality chaffs with the Ancient's collective norms and systems. However, due to how he was written just makes him appear little more than whining. Just like how Venat's writing comes off more aggressive than necessary when in practice her character and decisions were meant to, again, be at odds with the issues presented in Ancient wonder utopia communism.

[Melorie]

I enjoyed the history, but this thread actually had a pretty good discussion. I also feel that the fact that FFXIV is a forever ongoing history doesn't help, the repetitiveness of certain plot devices really hit differently.

[EverQuest]

I thought it was average to above average. Don't really want anymore Ascians stuff.

Like it's great by mmorpg standards, but that's not exactly a high bar if you catch my drift. Also it more of a one and done thing. It's no chrono trigger that's for sure.

[Lauront]

Completely agree.

Bit of a tangent, but for anyone whose read Attack on Titan(Heavily recommend it btw), one thing I love about its story is how its careful not to take a hard stance on any side of its primary conflict through to the very end. It acknowledges that despite there being people that stand to benefit from genocide, whether the perpetrator is right or wrong for doing what they felt was necessary is ultimately up to the individual, and naturally, there is no shortage of people who would vilify them for it. Even when characters are spared from tragedy, they're capable of looking towards their savior and recognize that they're no saint but might in fact just be a monster that just happened to take their side.

The main protagonist (or antagonist depending on how you choose to view things) of that story is what I wanted Hydaelyn to become. I never wanted her to be the final big bad, nor did I expect it. What I wanted, NOT expected, but wanted was her to be was someone willing to go to extreme lengths to ensure we benefit from the world she cultivated, even if there are those who would brand her a devil for it. But instead, we get someone whose actions are excused by all, including by Emet who by all logic should've been furious that such crucial information has been withheld from them for seemingly no reason. It's one thing for him to accept loss, it's another for him to accept that this was the only way when we know for a fact that there was ATLEAST one other path that might've granted different results. Hydaelyn is a perpetrator of suffering and despair, but the sad part is that nobody other than her actually cares, and that's just boring.

Same, I really enjoy AoT for that reason. As for Venat? I was expecting something along the lines of Yunalesca, not an outright villain and even a sympathetic character in many respects, but one insistent on a set of methods she wanted mankind to use... we did sort of get that, but the in-story characterisation of it, barring her own words (whereas with Yunalesca the party rather than herself rebuked her), did not live up.