What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Jandor]

He says that but that’s with things occurring my how they did. Had Venat actually told them everything and didn’t kept secrets, things could’ve gone in a completely different direction and the ancients might’ve actually stood a chance.

He's not exactly bereft of information at the end, he knows about everything he forgot, he's somehow been watching us with Hythlo and knows what we've been up to, and he knows all about his own people and what they were capable of. Don't take this personally, but I think Emet's assessment of his peoples chances is far more likely to be accurate than yours is.

[KizuyaKatogami]

He's not exactly bereft of information at the end, he knows about everything he forgot, he's somehow been watching us with Hythlo and knows what we've been up to, and he knows all about his own people and what they were capable of. Don't take this personally, but I think Emet's assessment of his peoples chances is far more likely to be accurate than yours is.

I mean, again, his mindset is clearly different than what it is in Elpis, so much so hes shocked at what he becomes. The fact is with everything we're told and shown, had Venat actually told her people what happened, they could've found a way forward, they just werent given the chance. Considering we have relied upon said unsundered ancients time and time again, we clearly cant do it ourselves. We need their help. If we couldnt do it without their help then whose to say they couldnt do it themselves? Dont take this personally but i think the writer's wrote themselves into a corner with this and it shows. While trying to write the story in a way that indirectly tried to say the sundering isnt all that bad and the sundered are capable of things the ancients arent, they contradicted themselves based on how theyve wrote things in the past. The sundered have hardly ever done thing via their own merit. Theyve done so with indirect help of the ancients or higher up entities. Hydaelyn,allag, etc etc. It just shows we'd be nowhere were it not for them.

[Jandor]

I mean, again, his mindset is clearly different than what it is in Elpis, so much so hes shocked at what he becomes. The fact is with everything we're told and shown, had Venat actually told her people what happened, they could've found a way forward, they just werent given the chance. Considering we have relied upon said unsundered ancients time and time again, we clearly cant do it ourselves. We need their help. If we couldnt do it without their help then whose to say they couldnt do it themselves? Dont take this personally but i think the writer's wrote themselves into a corner with this and it shows. While trying to write the story in a way that indirectly tried to say the sundering isnt all that bad and the sundered are capable of things the ancients arent, they contradicted themselves based on how theyve wrote things in the past. The sundered have hardly ever done thing via their own merit. Theyve done so with indirect help of the ancients or higher up entities. Hydaelyn,allag, etc etc. It just shows we'd be nowhere were it not for them.

Cute, but irrelevant. The story is what the story is, you don't have to like it, but wishing it was different doesn't actually make it so.

The Ancients couldn't win, you're outright told that. I would have personally preferred that it be reinforced with a little more explicit showing along the way, but they decided to go with mainly just telling us, and I struggle to think of a way they could have more explicitly told us without just breaking the 4th wall and literally telling us.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Cute, but irrelevant. The story is what the story is, you don't have to like it, but wishing it was different doesn't actually make it so.

The Ancients couldn't win, you're outright told that. I would have personally preferred that it be reinforced with a little more explicit showing along the way, but they decided to go with mainly just telling us, and I struggle to think of a way they could have more explicitly told us without just breaking the 4th wall and literally telling us.

Its not exactly irrelevant. We're not outright told that. We're told they didnt win, where the circumstances were they didnt know what they were facing. We're shown they could in some ways manipulate dynamis.They had an entire facility that could literally help them hone said power. There's nothing pointing to the fact they couldnt have adapted and come together to combat Meteion. Considering they were able to create a being who could shield them from Meteion for thousands of years, one doesnt have to go through hoops to acknowledge they'd be able to find a way had they known the truth. You're banking your entire argument on one line of dialogue. Whereas we have numerous other lines of dialogue showing that they wouldve had a chance had Venat not banked everything on one person and instead trusted her own people. When the writing contradicts its own points then no its not irrelevant and i will call it out as such.Its just one of the many flaws of Endwalker and it seems more people are starting to acknowledge said flaws which is good. Wouldnt want more shoddy writing like this in the future anyhow. Better to call these problems out sooner rather than later. Not everyone is going to be captivated by fluff moment #269. Some people want to see actual in depth writing.

[Jandor]

Its not exactly irrelevant. We're not outright told that. We're told they didnt win, where the circumstances were they didnt know what they were facing. We're shown they could in some ways manipulate dynamis.They had an entire facility that could literally help them hone said power. There's nothing pointing to the fact they couldnt have adapted and come together to combat Meteion.

Emet remembers:


Emet has been watching:


Emet wouldn't have done better:


You're not supposed to think Venat is evil or stupid, it's been one of your complaints if I recall correctly, and I doubt you're supposed to get the impression that Emet is lying to us here, or maybe missing some solution that he's just not thought of. When both those characters tell you their people couldn't have done better, and they know them far better than we do, then it's a safe bet that they really couldn't have done better.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Emet remembers:


Emet has been watching:


Emet wouldn't have done better:


You're not supposed to think Venat is evil or stupid, it's been one of your complaints if I recall correctly, and I doubt you're supposed to get the impression that Emet is lying to us here, or maybe missing some solution that he's just not thought of. When both those characters tell you their people couldn't have done better, and they know them far better than we do, then it's a safe bet that they really couldn't have done better.

Except besides those lines of dialogue, everything else points otherwise. Why wouldn’t they be able to hone their dynamis skills? We know they were able to manipulate it as they use limit breaks in the dungeon. Hermes was able to create a familiar who could interact with it. They had an entire facility again, they could use to hone their skills. They’re commenting on it as how they see it now. Considering they never even got the chance to try, they don’t know for certain. Keep in mind this is the Emet that toiled centuries to being about a rejoining. The rejoining methods would not have brought them that far that is correct. Venat telling them originally what was going on might have. What we know points to them having at least had the right tools, it was a matter of using them. Venat is the one who gambled everything on a single person and had forsaken her own people so i’m not really going to even address her thoughts as she’s the one who kept secrets from them in the first place.

[HollowedDoll]

Emet wouldn't have done better:

Yeah, kinda hard to when they didn't even know about Meteion, cause someone didn't bother telling them...

[Jandor]

Yeah, kinda hard to when they didn't even know about Meteion, cause someone didn't bother telling them...

He knows about Meteion when he says that.

Sorry that's not how criticizing story works. The writer can make every single npc to praise venat (as if they haven't already), but people are still allowed to think it's a bad decision she made. Especially when she intentionally deprived the Ancients a veeeeery crucial information. It's just bad writing imo.

'I think the story does a terrible job of explaining why Venat didn't go the Convocation' is criticizing the story.

'If Venat had told the Convocation about Meteion, then they'd have all come up with a solution together and saved the Unsundered world' is essentially fan-fiction.