What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Atelier-Bagur]

maybe at EU Fanfest? idk

[magtuired]

Little late to the party with this topic but in terms of death, I really thought that Thancred was going to die in Endwalker considering his character arc from Heavensward had very satisfyingly been completed and Endwalker did not throw out any interesting ideas for where it could go.

I sincerely thought when he disappeared to manifest Ultima Thule physically that it was going to be a permadeath and it felt really fitting he would do it as a last act of defiance and as a last act as a character.

Then when the scions all started having their own little mini speeches where they disappeared I realise they were all going to come back and it frankly made the ending fall flat on it's ass for me.

[Hallideus]

Honestly? Yeah, at the time going through it for the first time I didn't mind and just took it as is but over time I've not been able to shake the apprehensiveness towards the story. At least the 6.0 big story.
Most of it I felt was great, well executed, with some brilliant use of side characters and twists to get us from A to B to C.

Now, I'm sorry in advance if this seems a bit negative, but this is simply how I feel. My 2p. My opinion.

The way Zodiark was handled really didn't sit right with me.
Mind you, Fandaniel was absolute fire.
Oh and he was actually the bloke from Crystal Tower with the funky hat everyone kept outrolling me on? Like, sure, yeah, Ascian and all, he can be that guy too. Just Let him have his magnificent hat ffs. Worst offence of the game entirely. Do the devs know how much a hat tells you about a person? For shame!!

Personally I didn't really didn't vibe with the fact the ACTUAL big bad all along, was basically past-Fandaniel's very emo bird. The Zodiark-Hydaelyn dynamic that was built up and hyped up for the last 10 years was subsumed for Existential Twitter, who I just met like 5 minutes ago basically.

The entirety of the Ultima Thule zone though was horrid for me. Exhausting, I actually really disliked that zone and the way the story went for it. Self yeeting scions to carve you a path to the big bad, but get brought back effortlessly before the big fight. Only for Zenos to gatecrash at the end because he's horny for a fight like a chav after a few cans of stella. Oh you beat the big bad emo bird causing the end of the world? "1v1 me brah no balls, no balls". Everything else is a minor gripe but this zone, this entire zone was torture.

Now the patch stories of us going into the void and getting the FF4 references has been far better, the Pandaemonium and Myths of the Realm too. Better. Though Pandaemonium turns into a bit of a "daddy issues" story, with a twist at the end of "yer ma was actually a psycho, son" and some very wholesome bromance going on. Still better.


Oh and as a sidenote does anyone else feel Anima could have been a proper awesome standalone trial? Bit of a waste but, ah well. You can't have it all.

[Theodric]

Oh and as a sidenote does anyone else feel Anima could have been a proper awesome standalone trial? Bit of a waste but, ah well. You can't have it all.

That was almost certainly planned to be the case, though for whatever reason we ended up losing out on a Garlemald focused expansion. A shame, but it is what it is - the current stance of the development team seems to no longer be fond of the same world and tone they established back in the days of ARR and seem eager to move away from it.

[ForsakenRoe]

Oh and as a sidenote does anyone else feel Anima could have been a proper awesome standalone trial? Bit of a waste but, ah well. You can't have it all.

I'm personally fine with Zod being at level 83, if he was the final boss it'd have been super predictable and that's no good. But, one way I could see it have going quite well is if the push to Garlemald and retaking the capital was fleshed out to a full expansion, and Anima was the final boss of that, with the shocking pre-fight cutscene (equivalent to Zenos fusing with Shinryu in SB, or the whole Emet/Ardbert bit in SHB) being the revelation that Anima is the emperor's corpse reanimated by primal-ing, would land pretty well I think. Would also allow for Ilsabard to be a bit more fleshed out in terms of geography, maybe we do a SB style pincer attack and have Gyr Abania side push on one front, and Nagxia/Dalmascan zones (sp?) on the other

Then I'd make it so that for EW (now being 90+), same bosses. But if I was in charge of everything it'd be said, at any media stuff/fanfests/everywhere gaming journalism has ears, that 'when you have finished the story, you will be level 99, as homage to some of the older games'. If asked about 'why not 100 like other older games', I'd just say 'it was a tough decision because yes some are 99 and some are 100, but in the end we went with 99'. However, during the final fight when the 'big hero moment' kicks in, you temporarily break limits (something something dynamis) and become level 100. You gain access to the 'level 100 skill' as a Duty Action (20s CD, no other restrictions like gauge costs), having never been shown anywhere before, so everyone's losing their minds mid fight because they just got to see Double Down or Primal Rend for the first time. The boss's reaction of 'how are you getting stronger' and frantically flailing in desperation is wholly justified, as you've apparently just mastered a completely new move seemingly instantly, with zero practice beforehand. After the fight, you keep the new level 100 move, but are returned to level 99 so as to preserve the surprise, and it has the new restrictions like Gauge cost or longer CD (blame it on 'there is less dynamis to work with back on home planet' or something).

Lastly, in the final duel with clingy ex BF, instead of having 6 stacks of 'extra lives', you have infinite, it's a victory lap of sorts. Your goal would be to drop Zenos a certain number of times, as currently. After he drops the first time, he does his reaper fusion thing still, after that though, is different. Instead of instantly 'killing' you every time you 'kill' him (very stale imo), he doesn't do that. Instead, each time he or you drop to zero HP, you immediately restore to full HP with that glow around you (cos dynamis), without losing control of your character (no down for the count rubbish), and your level increases. At first, by small increments, 105, 110, 120, but then 150, 200, 300, 500, and finally if you somehow die that many times, 999. With this, your damage numbers and HP values also increase to insane amounts, and as Zenos gets beaten over and over, his 'level' increases too, with his HP bar getting larger and larger, his attacks doing more and more damage, with the scaling being such that each consecutive phase is shorter than the last (the level ups get faster and faster), eventually the two of you reaching the point where you're doing literal millions of damage per GCD against each other, because there's no other point in the game that it'd make narrative sense to have numbers like that, and it'd be cool to have just one time. Tell me WAR mains wouldn't enjoy seeing their Fell Cleave crit for 3.2 million damage

Maybe kinda cringe, but hey we're playing FFXIV, that's a bit cringe by default

[OooBlooPloom]

Dollar store crusted up powerbait

[MikkoAkure]

That was almost certainly planned to be the case, though for whatever reason we ended up losing out on a Garlemald focused expansion. A shame, but it is what it is - the current stance of the development team seems to no longer be fond of the same world and tone they established back in the days of ARR and seem eager to move away from it.

What are you talking about? ARR lore was practically nonexistent and the tone was the very blatant “dark=evil, light=good” that you complained about a few posts above. The Garleans and Ascians were cartoonishly evil back then with no motivation other than “they’re bad guys”.

I wish they had an Anima trial and I think Zodiark should’ve been the 2nd trial instead of the first and that Meteion should’ve been cut. I disagree with a Garlemald-focused expansion though because it would’ve just been Stormblood 2.0 and I could not at all suffer Zenos for yet another expansion

That possible extra expansion was cut during planning phase when they were considering either 1 or 2 more before ending the story. Someone decided it was time to end the Hydaelyn-Zodiark saga and at this point with all the main Ascians dead, I think it was time.

[Theodric]

I'd consider ARR to have plenty of nuance and it was very clear to me early on that there was more to Garlemald and the Ascians than initially met the eye as is often the case with a great many antagonists in various forms of media. I also didn't get the impression that the tone of the game was a clear cut 'good' versus 'evil' especially with how the city states behaved before they were sanitised over time.

[Kazhar]

What are you talking about? ARR lore was practically nonexistent and the tone was the very blatant “dark=evil, light=good” that you complained about a few posts above. The Garleans and Ascians were cartoonishly evil back then with no motivation other than “they’re bad guys”.

This stopped being true as soon as 2.X patches started.
Elidibus was introduced very early and this was the first hints there was more to the Ascians than just a dark cult. Helping us for unknown reasons and acting like we shouldn't be on opposite sides (they clearly didn't know what to do with the character at the time and Emet-Selch basically stole his entire concept in ShB 5.0, but the seeds were planted there.)
This is also when the story also becomes more complex than just a black and white two way conflict with Garlemald, with the local politicians taking notice of the WoL's success.

[ReynTime]

A lot of the lore in 2.0 carried over from 1.X. Saying ARR had no lore just isn't true. Most of the interesting lore in this game isn't even in the MSQ...
Hell the 3 first city states had more lore than the boring shit like Thavnair that came after.