What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Xirean]

I have a question about opinions on the Scions. Is the displeasure with the fanboy personality of G'raha because people got used to the Exarch persona or because people just don't like fanboy in general? Would people feel better or less frustrated with this aspect if it were explained/explored more how G'raha actually works with the dual memories/soul thing?

[ReynTime]

I have a question about opinions on the Scions. Is the displeasure with the fanboy personality of G'raha because people got used to the Exarch persona or because people just don't like fanboy in general? Would people feel better or less frustrated with this aspect if it were explained/explored more how G'raha actually works with the dual memories/soul thing?

My problem with EW G'raha is that he's a flanderized version of his ARR self, and the Exarch was a much more believable "aged" version of the original G'raha.

Endwalker G'raha is a plot device at best and exclusively a tool to get fangirls/boys squealing in social media at worst. They could come up with the most detailed explanation as to why he is the way he is, it still doesn't change that he is.

That's my two cents anyway.

To be honest I think both him and Y'shtola are just as bad now.

[aveyond-dreams]

I have a question about opinions on the Scions. Is the displeasure with the fanboy personality of G'raha because people got used to the Exarch persona or because people just don't like fanboy in general? Would people feel better or less frustrated with this aspect if it were explained/explored more how G'raha actually works with the dual memories/soul thing?

We spent over a year and a half with the serious character of the Exarch whose on screen presence moved the plot along in meaningful ways. This was a character who understood and was prepared for the fact that his sacrifices would not be automatically hand-waved away by writing unable to commit to the weight of his decisions. Then his crystallization was negated and 5.4 went on to start the sparly eyes uwu trend.

The character at this point is ruined in my eyes and I have very little interest in exploring the inner workings of his mind. This is not the character I grew to like over the course of Shadowbringers. He went from one of the better characters in this game to a force that motivates me to uninstall each time he speaks because he's become the fandom's plushie to which no harm can be done. At this point he represents negative character growth combined with a personality so insufferable that him still being involved in the main plot would be an active detriment to the story.

Resources are best spent introducing and fleshing out new, fresh characters who can be taken seriously and do not feel the need to chase after the WoL like a lost puppy.

[Xeronia]

I have a question about opinions on the Scions. Is the displeasure with the fanboy personality of G'raha because people got used to the Exarch persona or because people just don't like fanboy in general? Would people feel better or less frustrated with this aspect if it were explained/explored more how G'raha actually works with the dual memories/soul thing?

I think the issue for me personally is the bits of Exarch are still there as present in the Final days of Thavnair when he is rescuing the people. It is super jarring to see him switch on "I am a leader with 100+ years experience and know how to handle this" then go right back to fawning over the WoL. I also feel like him fawning over the WoL is just as unneeded as when they tried to do it with Alisaie in ShB. Man do I miss the not ultra in your face WoL harem members who have a life outside of me. Let me also say I loved Exarch as a character but seeing how they have done G'raha just makes me shake my head and want to hit the skip cutscene button which I back out of and just speed read the dialog because heavens forbid I get yelled at for not understanding the lore because I skipped a cutscene I could Youtube/Unending Journey later. I had intended to replay the whole story again on an alt with a friend over his summer break from college but knowing I will basically have to see "Exarch" die again kinda makes me not motivated.

[Lunaxia]

I have a question about opinions on the Scions. Is the displeasure with the fanboy personality of G'raha because people got used to the Exarch persona or because people just don't like fanboy in general? Would people feel better or less frustrated with this aspect if it were explained/explored more how G'raha actually works with the dual memories/soul thing?

I just can't bring myself to enjoy a character who feels so singularly one-dimensional in terms of his ongoing hero-worship of the WoL, and whereas once I might have shrugged it off, the rest of the SHB with its refreshingly more nuanced storyline and characters only further highlighted how flat his writing felt. I mean, it's not even really up for debate at this point, as Yoshi even confirmed it himself:

He just wants to go on an adventure alongside [your character]. He has this straightforward reverence for him or her. That's the personality of the Crystal Exarch and what shapes him.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/fi.../1100-6480013/

Characters who are defined by their relationship to another character will never be compelling or good writing to me, which is why I also felt somewhat let down by Hythlodaeus and how the potential of his role in the story was reduced down to propping up the characters of Emet-Selch and Azem, as much as I do enjoy their relationship. I definitely could have warmed up to G'raha had they leaned more into developing an identity for him outside of his WoL obsession and touched on the effects his time as Exarch might have had on him, but instead they chose to double down on it, which as a player I can't even opt out of or disagree with, and that frustrates me even more.

[Xirean]

Characters who are defined by their relationship to another character will never be compelling or good writing to me,...

Completely fair though I am now wondering how you feel about Thancred who is fairly defined by his relationship to Minfilia and Mini-Filia, or the twins. I know the twins have a good amount of nuance, but I think it's fair to say that they are quite heavily defined by their relationship to each other, being twins...

[Lunaxia]

Completely fair though I am now wondering how you feel about Thancred who is fairly defined by his relationship to Minfilia and Mni-Filia, or the twins. I know the twins have a good amount of nuance, but I think it's fair to say that they are quite heavily defined by their relationship to each other, being twins...

There's a difference between a meaningful relationship having a significant impact on a character and their story, and when a character is given no other defining traits, beliefs or personality outside of that relationship. Thancred and the twins have their own unique histories, identities and purposes that shape who they are and make them credible, believable characters in their own right, outside of their connections to others. Yet even after a century away of leading a collective of survivors of a horrific apocalypse that continued to torment and haunt them beyond comprehension, G'raha still doesn't really appear to mature or change in any respect other than becoming even more fixated on the WoL and his - in my view, a little egotistical -dream of being part of some heroic epic. His character just doesn't shown much development at all, and I struggle to find what's interesting or appealing about him.

[CrownySuccubus]

Yet even after a century away of leading a collective of survivors of a horrific apocalypse that continued to torment and haunt them beyond comprehension, G'raha still doesn't really appear to mature or change in any respect other than becoming even more fixated on the WoL and his - in my view, a little egotistical -dream of being part of some heroic epic.

I disagree with this. The point of Gr'aha Tia's arc, IMO, is that he was almost assured that he was going to die at the end of his long-term plan to save The First and the WOL. The Exarch, in addition to holding back his emotions for fear of revealing his identity, is morbidly aware that his days are numbered. He selflessly dedicated his entire life to the protection of the First, and plans on taking his last breath sacrificing himself for both the world and someone important to him. But, when he survives and is thrust back into the body of his younger self, he gets a second chance at a life that seemed lost to him.

This is to say nothing of the fact that the fusion young Gr'aha and older Gr'aha left him with an identity crisis. The Gr'aha we see now is NOT merely the Crystal Exarch, or young Gr'aha with a memory injection (which is how Fandaniel describes himself in relation to Hermes). Personally, I thought the scenes where he explains how his memories of leading the Crystarium just "took over" in Radz-at-Han and how he's been wrestling with an existential crisis were pretty well done. Although, I think the latter should have had a BIT more show and less tell.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I have a question about opinions on the Scions. Is the displeasure with the fanboy personality of G'raha because people got used to the Exarch persona or because people just don't like fanboy in general? Would people feel better or less frustrated with this aspect if it were explained/explored more how G'raha actually works with the dual memories/soul thing?

For me, it’s that where he goes, bad writing and plot holes follow. Prime example at the end of ShB where he’s somehow able to cast a spell to summon 7 wol when he couldn’t even cast that spell properly once whilst under the full power of the tower, not even including the fact throughout the entire expansion we’re constantly told if he gets too far from the tower he’s weaker. They say this like it’ll mean something yet somehow he’s full power all the way in Amaurot? Then we get to 5.3 where he’s just untouchable. Elidibus just for some reason doesnt kill him so Graha kills not just one unsundered, but two. He has become nothing more than a mary sue whose only purpose is to take over the development of other characters and act as a new “adorable” mascot for the game that humps the WoL’s leg every 5 seconds.

[Renathras]

I've never been to this part of the forum before...but what?

Other than here, I've never seen any complaints about EW's story than some people thought the pacing could be better and the second trip to Laby felt a little filler to people and that EVERYONE knew the death fake-outs in Ultima were fake outs.

While those complaints are hardly nothing, they're also not supremely or critically damaging to the narrative, largely being mild annoyances marring an otherwise fantastic experience.

Is this forum out of touch with the entire rest of the community, or is this some big thing that I've somehow never heard of anywhere else?