What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Heavenchild]

I liked the EW Story a lot. Just the story around Zenos didn't make much sense to me.
But all in all I really enjoyed EW.

[Theodric]

The way in which Lyse was handled is pretty decent all things considered. She didn't fade into complete obscurity and she shows up every now and then whenever Ala Mhigo is of relevance...but for the most part, she's taking a backseat. If nothing else, the game is meant to serve a broad variety of tastes and on that basis alone we desperately need more variety and conflict amongst the major characters.

As it stands, ever character just seems to end up completely on board with whatever the player character and Scions suggest. Even when something they intend to do is exceedingly risky or controversial. I would not have enjoyed FFIX as much as I did if there weren't entire story arcs involving friendships and rivalries between the various characters. Of which, Steiner is the most prominent. By the end of the game there's a mutual respect for each other but for most of the game Steiner really dislikes Zidane and the feeling is mutual. Steiner isn't just there to be a hate sink or attack everyone, though. He cares about Garnet (since protecting her is his sworn duty) and he has respect for Vivi based on the little guy's mastery over magic.

I really hope that we're not set for another decade of the Scions being front and centre. Rebranding them as the 'Students of Baldesion' doesn't help much if the 'new' characters are just going to think and behave in the exact same manner as those we interact with already.

I don't have anything against Y'shtola, personally, though I do hope the eventual inevitable return to the First will result in her deciding to stay with Runar. Alisae and Alphinaud, once they've done their part in restoring Garlemald, are in a prime position to just go and live peacefully with their mother and father in Sharlayan.

I just hope that the writers don't just decide to write off characters as potential companions just because they aren't as popular as the likes of G'raha or Estinien.

[Jybril]

I just hope that the writers don't just decide to write off characters as potential companions just because they aren't as popular as the likes of G'raha or Estinien.

Unpopular Opinion but G'raha now sucks.
I like the Crystal Exarch way, way better. I actually wish G'raha never tagged with us and stayed there and help his people there
and possibly fall in love with Lyna (Sorry her name escapes me, I think that's it but the Viera.)

He has now suffered the 'Cute Neko Man" diseases where he does cute things like eat borgers
and do nothing but be useless the entire time. I actually kinda side with Eistenin now. He's good company
and he isn't idolizing me at every second...though he reminds me of Kain Highwind and I can't stand that mfer.
But anyways yeah lol. Just wish G'raha wasn't turned into this now because he lost his character for me.

[HollowedDoll]

Unpopular Opinion but G'raha now sucks.
I like the Crystal Exarch way, way better. I actually wish G'raha never tagged with us and stayed there and help his people there
and possibly fall in love with Lyna (Sorry her name escapes me, I think that's it but the Viera.)

He has now suffered the 'Cute Neko Man" diseases where he does cute things like eat borgers
and do nothing but be useless the entire time. I actually kinda side with Eistenin now. He's good company
and he isn't idolizing me at every second...though he reminds me of Kain Highwind and I can't stand that mfer.
But anyways yeah lol. Just wish G'raha wasn't turned into this now because he lost his character for me.

Hard agree, there's been maybe one instance in Endwalker where he actually acted like the same character we've got to know in SHB ( post-reveal mind you), it seems like he threw away his character arc and regressed back into quirky catboy from ARR with the added "benefit" of being an insufferable fanboy who's there purely for fanservice in what you'd think is a slice of life anime. Seriously feels like character assasination.

[cooker]

Unpopular Opinion but G'raha now sucks.
I like the Crystal Exarch way, way better. I actually wish G'raha never tagged with us and stayed there and help his people there
and possibly fall in love with Lyna (Sorry her name escapes me, I think that's it but the Viera.)

Wasn't the Crystal Exarch more of a father/grandfather to Lyna? I don't think they should get romantically involved lol. I like G'raha overall. I guess he could be a bit more serious, but don't think he's just pure comic relief (i.e., hi I view him as a young guy who had the role leader in a post apocalyptic (or ongoing apocalypse) world thrust upon him and he did it for a long time and finally has the opportunity to let his hair down a bit, but he isn't just comic relief and his serious side is still there and comes out.

[RedaAlert]

Unpopular Opinion but G'raha now sucks.
I like the Crystal Exarch way, way better. I actually wish G'raha never tagged with us and stayed there and help his people there
and possibly fall in love with Lyna (Sorry her name escapes me, I think that's it but the Viera.)

He has now suffered the 'Cute Neko Man" diseases where he does cute things like eat borgers
and do nothing but be useless the entire time. I actually kinda side with Eistenin now. He's good company
and he isn't idolizing me at every second...though he reminds me of Kain Highwind and I can't stand that mfer.
But anyways yeah lol. Just wish G'raha wasn't turned into this now because he lost his character for me.

That is not an "Unpopular Opinion" here in this forums, people here love to hate on G'raha at every chance they get.

I agree that he needs to have more badass moments where he shows his prowess and leadership more, but to say he was useless is just wrong and I will stand by this statement no matter what, all through EW he was the most competent out of all the Scions, saving the lives of countless people, but it really doesn't matter because people hate him purely out of personal feelings, if he does nothing people will call him useless, and if he does anything people will scream 'mary sue'. I think it is pretty clear that as the Crystal Exarch he was still a fanboy who idolized the WoL yet he kept his emotions and feelings tamed cause he needed to play the role of the enigmatic leader, he literally kind of told you how he feels on that hill on Kholusia, and all until 5.3 the possible outcome of his death haunted his mind as he used his very essence to put everything into the soul vessels to bring back the scions. Does that mean that the game should neglect his 100 years of leadership? no and that is why I want them to show his exarch side more.

After 5.3, having now given a 2nd chance in life, he decides to re-live his lost forgotten youth, free from responsibilities and stress, a 100 years, from an apocalypse to another to another, the man finally gets to live how he wants, but this is how he always was, with his exarch life popping in and out life like the Thavnair scene. I, personally, don't mind his affection, I don't mind him being who he is, and living as he wants, after everything he's been through, I kind of understand people who find him uncomfortable out of personal feelings, or feel like he is too attached, but I don't cry over fictional, pixelated characters being clingy to my pixelated character. Maybe I'm just weird idk, also the whole crystarium mentioned that Lyna is like a granddaughter to the Exarch, so unless you are into that I don't think it will work.

[KurohNeko]

1. I agree with the Zodiark one. Should have been a wayyyy bigger deal.
2. The Fermi's Paradox with a dead space answer is hardly lackluster. And makes me questions ones intelligence for not finding really entertaining and interesting considering the magic fantasy game actually did something unique and have aliens and real world philosophical questions beyond the normie level of good vs evil in it.
3. She avoided the mind-wipe if you were paying attention. Literally the only one who did. Hence her actions and foreshadowing to the protag.
She sundered the world and did what she did because she couldn't mobilize the ancients. Tried with her speech, they didn't listen. The ancients also lacked a strong amount of Dyanmis as it was said that it's basically anti-matter to aether and the only reason team protag and modern man can use it well is due to their souls being fragmented and having a higher level of Dynamis.

[Lauront]

2. The Fermi's Paradox with a dead space answer is hardly lackluster. And makes me questions ones intelligence for not finding really entertaining and interesting considering the magic fantasy game actually did something unique and have aliens and real world philosophical questions beyond the normie level of good vs evil in it.

Others have addressed the remaining points well, but on this one, I don't see what a lack of intelligence has to do with it.

My issue with it isn't even that they involved aliens, as we already knew of the dragons and Omega's creators, and that events had resulted in the ruination of both their worlds, although we were never quite told what. I would've very much liked some tale of cosmic horror threading these worlds' tale of misfortune...

Where it utterly fell apart for me was the highly caricatured view of these very sophisticated civilisations. One just decides to collectively sit around and then kill themselves because they couldn't figure out ways to entertain or amuse themselves or stimulate their brains and apparently not once pondered such issues. I guess we're good then, since we have gaming consoles and the like to gobble up our time... The game was also trying very hard to nudge me into seeing them as the ancients' fate, because "look! they're dressed the same, and they have butterflies and pretty fields, so it's totally the same!", when the Elpis quests/sidequests paint a very different picture of them, as does what we know of them from Amaurot, and their commitment to debate and philosophical pondering. Then we have the Ea, a civilisation spanning multiple stars, where they lose their wits at dealing with a problem that would only eventually impact them (and for all we know, is potentially solvable), and go all "guess I'll just die then"... which Y'shtola just shrugs her shoulders at. Being immortal doesn't prevent you from doing that. The idea of perfection they present is nonsensical, because it isn't truly perfection in the sense that the form of it they attain (and again, the plausibility here is being stretched very thin) is just a shift to other forms of strife.

Then we go to worlds one and two in the Dead Ends, which were scarcely "perfect" in any way, and really failed to make the point the dungeon was trying very hard at that stage to convince you of; the only world that I think succeeded to some degree was the Dragonstar's destruction, because it was a blissful world, destroyed for totally irrational reasons that unwound the Omicrons as well as a civilisation. Those two depictions I thought succeeded to some degree in pushing a viewpoint of why one might fall to nihilism, because that was truly a tale of senseless and heart-wrenching destruction, but even so, Midgardsormr did not succumb to despair. The other worlds collectively just reminded me of some of the more cartoonish aspects of ARR beast tribes (including the Omicrons, really), trying to pose as dEeP pHilOsOpHy.

Worst of all, the same perfectionist impetus exists in the sundered too, with their commitment to reducing misery, epitomised by the Scions and their usual saying of "brighter tomorrow".

I'm afraid it's not one's intelligence that is up for question if they don't like this plot, but the degree to which the writers thought they could get away with insulting it.

I mean...it's not though. The Final Days had been stopped and the world had been restored before the Sundering. There was no fiery Amaurot for her to slowly walk through on her way to chastise a faceless group of people after she'd allowed 75% of the population to be sacrificed. I'd say the only part of that nonsense that could have been accurate was Emet-Selch saying goodbye to Hythlodaeus and Hermes being emo and staring at the sky. I am sure they are trying to double down on this idea of the pure, good, goddess now by writing flowery prose about her actions but I have eyes of my own and I 'member.

Even if they had intended it to be, they reaffirmed during the Q&A that the Anamnesis scene with her followers is canonical, which obliterates any notion that that post-Elpis scene is in any way accurate to the events in its totality. I think what Skyborne is getting at, though, is they're attempting a sleight of hand where, if you don't think hard enough, that's all there is to the tale.

Curious, since they've doubled down on that being canonical how will they explain her loyal followers seemingly not being aware that summoning Hydaelyn would kill them all body and soul? As others have mentioned before, they speak as though they will be going on after she is gone and lament her not being there to lead them. Guess we'll never know!

Acceptable costs to her, I guess.

[SpectrePhantasia]

You know, having sat on our collective criticisms for a good long while now since December, all I can really do now is wonder "What happened?" Natsuko Ishikawa has displayed very competent writing skills with her work on both the Shadowbringers MSQ and Dark Knight questlines. I understand not everyone was a fan of the fact that her writing was often more emotionally charged and leaned into that, but I don't believe it had ever been as egregious as it became in Endwalker (being literally emotionally charged with Dynamis as a concept, oh my god).

The writing in those previous quests posed complicated ethical and moral questions and above all else, made it apparent these things had more than one side to them. Especially with the Ancients, no one was 'correct,' it was just different people having different beliefs on how best to save and preserve their world. And then there was Emet-selch, a man who'd lived through a society that simply didn't have the human vices that led to endless conflict, death and misery, and it makes you wonder 'can we really blame this guy for thinking this way?' It was heartwrenching, I would even go so far as to say that, at the end of 5.0, it was profound.

And then Endwalker retroactively spat in it's face and worked to shatter everything its predecessor built up by going "actually the Sundered are just better" and trying to paint it like the original people were arrogant bliss-obsessed idiots instead of the scholarly gentle people we knew them to be, And of course, the person responsible for their eradication was the only one who knew the truth, and is just absolutely vindicated by being RIGHT.

It genuinely is so baffling that I almost refuse to believe they are written by the same person. I can only assume people higher up the food chain muddied these waters somehow, it's that insane to me.

[aveyond-dreams]

The post Elpis cutscene is not reflective of actual events. To be fair, it is unlikely anyone would have believed her preaching doom about a rogue bird that went off into space because the plot surrounding Meteion and Hermes is just too ridiculous to be taken seriously.