What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Theodric]

JRPG's used to be bolder in general back in the PS1 and PS2 era. I used to think it was simply nostalgia but having dusted off some of the older titles that I enjoyed...the trials and tribulations that the cast of Breath of Fire IV went through as well as what happened in Shadow Hearts made me realise just how many punches are pulled in modern JRPG's. Most of my complaints about FFXIV can be summed up as too much grit being stripped away in general. There's no naughty jokes any longer. Nobody of note ever dies (to the point where many people are even sceptical of actual character deaths sticking) and the self proclaimed heroes walk away with everything they could possibly want at the end of each new story arc.

At the very least it'd be refreshing if Ga Bu or Halric died instead of having numerous patches spent on a fake 'WILL THEY OR WILL THEY SAVE HIM' as if it was ever in any doubt that things would work out perfectly in a game that seems afraid to have any consequences for anyone other than antagonists or protagonists that already had one foot in the grave due to being strategically side-lined already.

[Carin-Eri]

Have to confess, whilst Zenos annoyed the snot out of me for the vast majority of his involvement in the story I DID like the direction they took with him in the end. He clearly approached the WoL from a different angle when he appears at Ultima Thule - he wants to fight us again, sure, but this time he wants to go all out. No holding back. Remember that we held back in Stormblood, where our objective was to take him alive and have him stand trial. He committed suicide to deny that closure.
When he fights us in Ultima Thule there is no holding back from either party. He pours absolutely everything he has that fight - and so does the WoL. Two souls, more similar than either would care admit (in the Dark Mirror sense that Zenos himself referenced), burning their absolute brightest. And it's the greatest joy Zenos has ever known - the only joy he could ever share.

That said (and with the 'he's dead' statement in mind) I don't think he should be brought back. The problem with a character with the motivation Zenos had is that you're left with the 'and then what' trope. He is instantly recognisable, unwelcome anywhere, wanted to stand trial for war crimes and he can't really lay low hiding in a different body as they established his body was special. He wouldn't work as an ally, we don't need an anti-hero and as a rival.... we surprased him. His story ended in the right place, in the right way, in my opinion.

[Caurcas]

Another angle one could take is that 14's storytelling is hampered by its format. Being an MMO probably makes thing such as world state changes difficult, aswell as accounting for main character actions within a story sequence or cutscene with all the different jobs. So this probably leads to a necessary blandness and general inaction on the WoL's behalf.

[Nekokaori]

Another angle one could take is that 14's storytelling is hampered by its format. Being an MMO probably makes thing such as world state changes difficult, aswell as accounting for main character actions within a story sequence or cutscene with all the different jobs. So this probably leads to a necessary blandness and general inaction on the WoL's behalf.

false, just like how u can only see the ziggurats at a certain point of the story they could read x= this y =this and change whats viewd as they have been shown to do at times how people can believe such nonsense when they have shown us methods and ways to do it,

wouldnt need a billion different options

rlly would at most need 3 tops and not anythng major rlly to feel "immersive" even little things like one building destoryed or negative views on us if we selected x is enough

x y z =this change is all they would rlly have to to make it more lively... and it doesnt have to be major again even lightest change that has some depth could be amazing

[RoroCookies]

Part of me kinda wish Zenos joined us in the party for a bit. He would’ve delivered so much spice that the scions could never do because they all ‘yes man’ each other constantly.
I think part of the reason why I enjoy Zenos is for just that in general. He doesn’t care and doesn’t tries to sit on a high horse like everyone else.
Idk, maybe it’s just me wanting for there to be more unique characters that defer in opinions for once. I think at one point in this thread Theordic touched a bit on this before and I have to strongly agree. The game needs characters that don’t just blankly agree to each other.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Since Stormblood I always felt that there was more to Zenos's story, that his desire for a fierce battle in order to "feel" something would have some more development. And once I saw him made his "return", jumping from body to body I was like "yeah, I knew it! his real backstory is coming later". Aaaaaaaaaaand... it never happened. Instead he became a mere power lvl monster and a poor attempt at Vegeta, and they had the gall to flaunt "yeah, we couldn't be bothered to make an actual backstory. Would it have changed anything?" And honestly if they couldn't deal with that by the end of this story, the "story to end all stories" I don't see how I could care about anything relating to that character if he ever comes back.

Speaking of wasted potential, remember the multiple times through the story where the echo was said to allow "transcending the barriers of the soul"? Like the ascian fusion at the end of Aetherochemical Research Facility and Zenos possessing Shinryu, not to mention all his body swapping. It was said that we hadn't yet gained full control of what the echo could do... And then there's the mess with the echo and the blessing of light in EW. I'm not completely sure how that game of calvinball ended but it looked like soul-transcending was completely dropped.

I’m curious why they make comments about his backstory when he technically already had it and they described it already, although it was in short stories. He was just a bad seed from the beginning and it seemed he was just born to fail. I think at one point the devs even regarded him as the “ultimate evil.” Kind of like michael myers i guess lol. Just born to be a killer

[Sicno]

I’m curious why they make comments about his backstory when he technically already had it and they described it already, although it was in short stories. He was just a bad seed from the beginning and it seemed he was just born to fail. I think at one point the devs even regarded him as the “ultimate evil.” Kind of like michael myers i guess lol. Just born to be a killer

He had a backstory. A very cool one that perfectly explains his behavior and motivations, at that.

It was just in side content.

All of it.

Oh so it's in the side stories... I see. I think I read one of the early ones and while entertaining there wasn't much to be gleaned from it, so I didn't find a time to read the rest as I was always busy with something. Thanks for letting me know it's there I'll give it a read when I can.

That said I would have preferred to see at least some of it in-game in place of some of the tedious filler. I'd have killed a loporrit or 2 for it.

[PawPaw]

Oh so it's in the side stories... I see. I think I read one of the early ones and while entertaining there wasn't much to be gleaned from it, so I didn't find a time to read the rest as I was always busy with something. Thanks for letting me know it's there I'll give it a read when I can.

That said I would have preferred to see at least some of it in-game in place of some of the tedious filler. I'd have killed a loporrit or 2 for it.

I think the one where he's hanging out with Yotsuyu is the only one that's been released on the Lodestone, which...sucks if you're interested in his backstory for sure. His actual story is called "The Hunt Begins" and it can only be found in SE's Chronicles of Light which hasn't been in print in english in a thousand years. No idea why they thought it'd be a good idea to keep any and all information on him locked outside of the story, but there you have it.

Some kind soul on reddit transcribed it so that the rest of us can actually partake, though: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...s_the_offical/

[CrownySuccubus]

I don't think it's a case of JPRGS being bolder back in the "Good Ole Days". There were just a lot more of them.

During the "Golden Age" of JRPGs (basically, the 90s to early 2000s), there were a ton of RPGs trying to imitate the success of Final Fantasy. Legend of Dragoon, Legend of Legaia, Suikoden, Shadow Hearts, Skies of Arcadia, Lunar, Star Ocean, Grandia, Phantasy Star, Chrono Cross, etc, etc, etc. Some of them were hits, but there were a lot of misses. Some of them were bold storytelling, most were not. For every deep, mature story like Persona 2 or Shadow Hearts, there were ten formulaic and pulpy stories like Skies of Arcadia, Legend of Dragoon or Grandia. (Not calling those games bad, btw. Two of them are amongst my favorite RPGs of all time.)

These days, though, companies do not churn JRPGs like they used to. Even Final Fantasy, which pretty much had a new mainline FF every year between 1998 and 2001, only gives us a new game every 6-7 years if we're lucky. There's still Persona and SMT for more "mature" stories, but even those have started settling into formulas since the successes of SMT III: Nocturne and Persona 3.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I don't think it's a case of JPRGS being bolder back in the "Good Ole Days". There were just a lot more of them.

During the "Golden Age" of JRPGs (basically, the 90s to early 2000s), there were a ton of RPGs trying to imitate the success of Final Fantasy. Legend of Dragoon, Legend of Legaia, Suikoden, Shadow Hearts, Skies of Arcadia, Lunar, Star Ocean, Grandia, Phantasy Star, Chrono Cross, etc, etc, etc. Some of them were hits, but there were a lot of misses. Some of them were bold storytelling, most were not. For every deep, mature story like Persona 2 or Shadow Hearts, there were ten formulaic and pulpy stories like Skies of Arcadia, Legend of Dragoon or Grandia. (Not calling those games bad, btw. Two of them are amongst my favorite RPGs of all time.)

These days, though, companies do not churn JRPGs like they used to. Even Final Fantasy, which pretty much had a new mainline FF every year between 1998 and 2001, only gives us a new game every 6-7 years if we're lucky. There's still Persona and SMT for more "mature" stories, but even those have started settling into formulas since the successes of SMT III: Nocturne and Persona 3.

Even in the final fantasy series alone though, i feel like the older ones were much bolder. Some of them ended in the entire world being destroyed or forever massacred. Characters actually died and suffered consequences. Whereas now you have 14 where it’s just like an anime slice of life game where nothing bad happens to the main cast.