What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Skyborne]

Didn't you hear? Apparently making Estinien put his foot on the balcony outside the Sharlayan *College Dorm* was one of the most expensive scenes in Endwalker. Look no further than the "slice of life" fluff to see where the budget that should've been spent on actual fantasy sequences has gone.

If true, goes to show they have not really learned much from gorillion polygon potted plants in 1.0. But this time, HD 8k archon loaf, strings of cheese slithering down G'raha's face and wiggly pickle physics.

On that note, was anyone else disappointed by how normal Sharlayan ended up being?

Yep. Aside from the big library with the mammets wandering about, I didn't get much of an impression of it being this exclusive and isolated city of learning and magic. I think the music, which is more fitting for an afterschool sitcom for teenagers, is partially to blame. FF4's Mysidia? The real deal. I did like Labyrinthos and its concept, although I kind of wish it had a more Ktsis-esque variation of environments. Wasn't it supposed to be this ambitious vault of life forms from all over the world?

[Theodric]

Didn't you hear? Apparently making Estinien put his foot on the balcony outside the Sharlayan *College Dorm* was one of the most expensive scenes in Endwalker. Look no further than the "slice of life" fluff to see where the budget that should've been spent on actual fantasy sequences has gone.

On that note, was anyone else disappointed by how normal Sharlayan ended up being? Every time we've interacted with anything Sharlayan outside of Endwalker it has always had sinister vibes to it. Eureka. The abandoned colony. The assassination squads sent to kill anyone sharing state secrets. It's a real shame it was simply reduced to a Disney style city of magic with no real grit. I also didn't like how the Scions had no reaction to the 'evacuation plan' picking and choosing which races were acceptable to take on board.

It's also annoying that it wasn't the Garleans who pieced together a spaceship given how that's...very much their sort of thing.

As an aside, do you have a source for that scene being expensive? It'd be good to dismantle the arguments that there's no wasteful spending.

[aveyond-dreams]

On that note, was anyone else disappointed by how normal Sharlayan ended up being? Every time we've interacted with anything Sharlayan outside of Endwalker it has always had sinister vibes to it. Eureka. The abandoned colony. The assassination squads sent to kill anyone sharing state secrets. It's a real shame it was simply reduced to a Disney style city of magic with no real grit. I also didn't like how the Scions had no reaction to the 'evacuation plan' picking and choosing which races were acceptable to take on board.

It's also annoying that it wasn't the Garleans who pieced together a spaceship given how that's...very much their sort of thing.

As an aside, do you have a source for that scene being expensive? It'd be good to dismantle the arguments that there's no wasteful spending.

Sharlayan as a place to afk and chill in is nice, the actual story I endured there was not. Given that it is home to the single-worst chain of filler MSQ quests, it was by far the weakest parts of Endwalker besides the Loporrit section of the Moon. There were so many problems with the way things went down over there, especially considering the stoic nature of our homogenous cast who couldn't give a human reaction when it was very clearly implied if not outright stated that the Garleans were going to be left behind.

The source for the interview was a translated one posted to the FFXIV reddit discord, but screenshotting it directly has proved a hassle. The translation was posted on January 9th, searching Estinien brought it up hidden behind spoiler text.

[MoofiaBossVal]

On that note, was anyone else disappointed by how normal Sharlayan ended up being? Every time we've interacted with anything Sharlayan outside of Endwalker it has always had sinister vibes to it. Eureka. The abandoned colony. The assassination squads sent to kill anyone sharing state secrets. It's a real shame it was simply reduced to a Disney style city of magic with no real grit. I also didn't like how the Scions had no reaction to the 'evacuation plan' picking and choosing which races were acceptable to take on board.

From the the 5.5 MSQ and the 6.0 previews, I thought that the Forum was somehow in collusion with Fandaniel and Zenos, building the towers for them (or providing the tech), and that dad was going to perform sabotage from the inside. He saw which way the wind was blowing in the Forum, but disagreed with the rest of the Forum (who voted unanimously to reject Eorzea's call for aid). So to maintain appearances, he voted to agree with the plan so he wouldn't have to resign or be silenced. He would still have power and freedom to act. He formally cut ties with his kids in order to keep them from being targetted by the Forum if they ever discovered he was actually working against them, and so that when he made his move and burned the Leveilleur name in the process, he wouldn't drag his kids down with him.

That theory that Anima would turn out to be mom was a lot more interesting than what we actually got.



Did we ever find out what this symbol inside the tower was supposed to mean? Why make an art asset that so closely resembles Sharlayan's symbol and arrangement of the Forum seats?

[SpectrePhantasia]

Crowny, your point doesn't really hold any water when you yourself are admitting that the actual root of these phrases and concepts can be so far divorced from their original context that they aren't even related, or hold any of the meaning anymore. If that's the case, how does this "subconscious force" have the impact you are claiming it does, on what is a very consciously designed story and world, with many differing viewpoints and people behind it? I'll have to take Brinne's side in saying this just seems like a generalization conjured from overthinking things. Having spectated your discussion, I'm failing to see what it is you're even trying to say here. But regardless, it's getting pretty far off topic so it's best just to let it lie.

Regardless of whatever the original influence was for these two deities it doesn't solve the problem that a lot of us wanted to see both Zodiark and Hydaelyn have ample screentime/development this expansion and we got neither. No duel between the two, barely any time where we got to see them in their godlike forms, no transformation sequences, nothing!

Unfortunately Zodiark can't really have development with the reveal that he was only ever a gundam suit. I have to say, not my favorite choice 5.3 made...

[CrownySuccubus]

Crowny, your point doesn't really hold any water when you yourself are admitting that the actual root of these phrases and concepts can be so far divorced from their original context that they aren't even related, or hold any of the meaning anymore. If that's the case, how does this "subconscious force" have the impact you are claiming it does, on what is a very consciously designed story and world, with many differing viewpoints and people behind it?

Being divorced form original context does not change the fact that a ritual or ideal still exists. Especially for an abstract concept such as a "soul". My original point was that much of the world does not think of a "soul" the same way that Western, Judeo-Christian people think of it. Even if we ignore Japan entirely, there are LOTS of different cultural understandings on what means to have, lose or create a "soul".

Again, if you do not agree or need confirmation by a Japanese person, then I invite you to watch the videos by the aforementioned "Ask Shogo" and other studies on Japanese cultural traditions.

But regardless, it's getting pretty far off topic so it's best just to let it lie.

Then you really shouldn't have replied.

[SpectrePhantasia]

Being divorced form original context does not change the fact that a ritual or ideal still exists. Especially for an abstract concept such as a "soul". My original point was that much of the world does not think of a "soul" the same way that Western, Judeo-Christian people think of it. Even if we ignore Japan entirely, there are LOTS of different cultural understandings on what means to have, lose or create a "soul".

My friend, I am not denying that it exists, I am denying that it holds significance in this case to the writing decisions, something which you cannot prove with absolution. If nothing else though, I ask that you not be so transparently rude to people who very clearly mean no offense and are trying to engage you on the discussion in good-faith.

[CrownySuccubus]

My friend, I am not denying that it exists, I am denying that it holds significance in this case to the greater narrative, something which you cannot prove with absolution. If nothing else though, I ask that you not be so transparently rude to people who very clearly mean no offense and are trying to engage you on the discussion in good-faith.

My friend, all I'm offering is a different lens from which to view aspects of the story. If anything, it was my hope that explaining how some of these plot threads may be related to, or find root explanations in, Japanese culture/religion may open up new perspectives and understandings that go beyond a Eurocentric binary of "makes sense/doesn't make sense". My goal was not to definitively state "Yeah, Yoshi P and crew were definitely and intentionally hammering Japanese culture into this plot point", so much as providing new context. By all means, you can take it or leave it. So you can understand why it may seem a bit hollow for that to immediately be dismissed with "by claiming that Japanese culture may have at all influenced the game, you are dehumanizing Japanese people (but let me put in parentheses that you're not doing that so you don't get offended)".

If you want good faith, give it in kind.

[SieyaM]

In the end, this whole thing feels like the original plan for Hydaelyn and Zodiark has long been scrapped or forgotten and a new plot was hastily put together to accommodate fan favorites and popularity. I remember getting very distinct hints that Hydaelyn had been controlling us and pushing us to action through some form of tempering, and someone pointed out earlier that Sharlayan ended up being much more tame than we had been led to believe before now. For a city that had been sending assassination squads and incredibly concerned with secrecy they sure are welcoming of a strangers showing up at their port. Even more so towards the end when everyone you ever met shows up to help build the super secret space ship that after decades of keeping a close guarded secret just decided to tell everyone everywhere about.

[Xirean]

In the end, this whole thing feels like the original plan for Hydaelyn and Zodiark has long been scrapped or forgotten and a new plot was hastily put together to accommodate fan favorites and popularity. I remember getting very distinct hints that Hydaelyn had been controlling us and pushing us to action through some form of tempering, and someone pointed out earlier that Sharlayan ended up being much more tame than we had been led to believe before now. For a city that had been sending assassination squads and incredibly concerned with secrecy they sure are welcoming of a strangers showing up at their port. Even more so towards the end when everyone you ever met shows up to help build the super secret space ship that after decades of keeping a close guarded secret just decided to tell everyone everywhere about.

The Twins dad was already telling people about the ship. The Forum had decided that the time to act was now. It had become public knowledge before this scene.