What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Ixon]

I don't know what it is with streamers getting hoodwinked (tempered? :P) by the post-Elpis cutscene. Even ones who echo our sentiments leading up to that point suddenly turn heel and become #TeamHydaelyn. The only exception I've seen was Zepla, who was thoroughly pissed off at the end of Elpis, but has since changed her tune. They may have tried to portray Venat as some sort of tragic heroine, but anyone with a lick of sense would know she brought that upon herself unnecessarily and at the cost of everyone else.

It's fine to disagree with a story element, but I don't think there is a need to belittle anyone who enjoyed it. I enjoyed it, for however much sense I do or do not have, I enjoyed Venat a hell of a lot more than "giant whisper crystal in the middle of the earth" that we to deal with since before ShB. I'm also not a huge fanboy over Graha Tia, even if he has a massive cult, but I don't go out of my to belittle others over their choice. Besides, half of the people here didn't care at all at the end of ShB, when we found out that us living meant the continued death of the Ancients, they were right on board with "Whoo-hoo, kick Emet's butt!".

[Lauront]

Besides, half of the people here didn't care at all at the end of ShB, when we found out that us living meant the continued death of the Ancients, they were right on board with "Whoo-hoo, kick Emet's butt!".

Possibly but I am definitely not one of those. My preference would've been to find some other way forward while working with him to repair the Source and restore the ancients besides the Rejoinings. The shattered nature of the world and life upon it is something I'd want to see reversed. My fave scene in SHB is during the Hades fight, calling upon the ancient shades to voice their desire to reclaim their world. As of EW, it all could've been prevented at an earlier point, possibly allowing the formation of an AU, so there is that now too. As a player I am able to detach myself from the character, and besides, if it were my character, that is the desire they'd likely have, too, as well as curiosity about their ancient shard.

[KageTokage]

I don't know what it is with streamers getting hoodwinked (tempered? :P) by the post-Elpis cutscene. Even ones who echo our sentiments leading up to that point suddenly turn heel and become #TeamHydaelyn. The only exception I've seen was Zepla, who was thoroughly pissed off at the end of Elpis, but has since changed her tune. They may have tried to portray Venat as some sort of tragic heroine, but anyone with a lick of sense would know she brought that upon herself unnecessarily and at the cost of everyone else.

Emotions can be highly effective at drowning out logic and reason.

I honestly fell into the same trap and it wasn't until I watched someone else doing the segment that I really realized how much of Venat's reasoning just feels like excuses and that she was already set on having history repeat itself in regards to the parts she knew the details of.

I particularly didn't buy into the thought that telling the Convocation about the Final Days would've somehow thrown things into disarray and made it harder for them to have fought back against the first coming of the Final Days.

[Kyohei]

Emotions can be highly effective at drowning out logic and reason.

This is how I convince myself Venat's behaviour could be realistic and how the script came to be accepted despite inconsistencies. It's still not enjoyable, but at least this angle makes it a bit more bearable.
Hermes' unhealthy emotions lead to the situation first-hand. Venat wasn't more immune to being emotional imo, her bad course of actions might as well have stemmed from being overwhelmed.
It is something I could've agreed with. That she made mistakes and errors of judgement, for the situation was above what she could handle correctly. That her sight and reasoning got clouded by the loads of information to process, urgency of the situation, fear of doom etc...and she ultimately couldn't and didn't see other ways out than the one told by future WoL.
Like when someone removes a plate from the oven, realises it's burning hot but don't put down immediately because of the shocked state and latency to process signals even though there are other people screaming to put it down. When the logical process finally kicks in it's to late hands are burnt, only thing left is to heal it. In the span of seconds, a situation that could've been avoided if logic was the first process to kick becomes a long painful coping with no other ways. Sorry but it's the best example I've found on the spot.
All of this to say emotions (of all kind) can highjack thought processes, it does happen and no one's immune to it. It's plausible to think anyone even the most talented are prey to it.
Anyway of course the story doesn't depict her in this fashion but it could be a way to think about it.
This, coupled with how Yoshida was so proud to announce back then that the guideline of Endwalker was emotion...Could've totally fit better than the mvp omniscient omnipotent messiah theme around her, the total opposite of a flawed person.
Honestly when I heard that at the time I was sceptical for the very reason emotions often lead to illogical and unreasonable behaviours/situations, which I dislike. The prospect of having the arc's last expansion based on such a volatile subject wasn't reassuring to me but after ShB I held confidence the story would be great regardless of the core subject.
What a shame it turned out the way it did.

[Rulakir]

Apologies for the poor wording of my statement. I didn't intend for it to come across as belittling. I also know better that there are people who loved every moment of it at the time who came to think differently about it later, like Kage. I got caught up in my own emotions re-watching those scenes with streamers and being disappointed at their reactions. I hated going through it the first time and seeing them again just brings all that negativity back to the surface.

Edit: I think I got spoiled with Zepla. Hers was the first playthrough I watched and, like I said, she was angry at the end of Elpis. I didn't think her reaction, as a primary FFXIV streamer who seems to love everything about the game, would end up being the odd one out of the bunch.

[PawPaw]

Besides, half of the people here didn't care at all at the end of ShB, when we found out that us living meant the continued death of the Ancients, they were right on board with "Whoo-hoo, kick Emet's butt!".

I didn't want to fight him at all, especially after what I'd learned from Hythlodaeus. The game didn't give me the option to even show him empathy though (standard treatment for Ascians), so I did what they made me do. I didn't take any pleasure from it and wanted to backhand Alphinaud when he ran up shouting joyously about Emet-Selch being dead.

Emotions can be highly effective at drowning out logic and reason.

I honestly fell into the same trap and it wasn't until I watched someone else doing the segment that I really realized how much of Venat's reasoning just feels like excuses and that she was already set on having history repeat itself in regards to the parts she knew the details of.

I particularly didn't buy into the thought that telling the Convocation about the Final Days would've somehow thrown things into disarray and made it harder for them to have fought back against the first coming of the Final Days.

Ditto. This is exactly what happened with me also. Then I started to really think about it from that point and it was like a waterfall of contradictions just came rushing at me. I struggle to even rewatch those scenes now but I see how easy it can be to be swept away on the first time through, take what you're given as law and never think about it again. That's how they planned it, after all.

[Brinne]

My tinfoil hat is, like, the size of the moon right now, and I'm pretty sure I'm seconds from being crushed like a bug under its weight, but:

Do not be alarmed--I mean you no harm. I wish only to hear your words, share your feelings, and know your thoughts.

Hydaelyn's "mother" motif was totally going to originally be explained with Meteion as her daughter, huh. And "hear, feel, think" would be explained as part of the original directive to Meteion.

Not that I think this version of the plot would sit much better with a lot of people - if Hydaelyn more or less destroyed the world in an attempt to save/help her daughter from despair. But then I think it would be a little more easy to logically follow why it was so important specifically that we be able to reach Meteion to talk to her and communicate a message of hope, rather than just "defeat" her. And also, I would probably like it better, and clearly, that is most important thing, above anything else.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go conspire with others about how the earth is totally flat, actually, if people would just open their eyes to the truth.

[Rulakir]

And "hear, feel, think" would be explained as part of the original directive to Meteion.

I wondered why that was attributed to Meteion and why Hydaelyn would adopt it from her, in fact, is Venat ever present when Meteion does her usual introduction? How would she know?

In retrospect I should have known Venat was gonna be a villain the moment I saw her do the SLOPPY! mechanic, from a far better villain.

It was the Flood of Light mechanic for me. I'm still shocked that's part of the fight.

I was hoping in one of these interviews they'd clarify whether or not Hydaelyn is sundered. A fight against an unsundered Hydaelyn wouldn't prove the capability to face Meteion. They also said that she used the last of her energy, the aether from her own soul, so how does that prove we can defeat a being made of predominantly dynamis?

Plus, it just never made sense to me. A big deal is made of how weak Hydaelyn is and becomes weaker with each rejoining, shouldn't it be the opposite if she were sundered? Not to mention that she was seemingly barely able to accomplish much on the Source and couldn't protect the shards at all, so why divide her power like that? The only person who even mentions this at any point in the story is the Watcher and it's never mentioned again either. It's just odd.

[PawPaw]

I was hoping in one of these interviews they'd clarify whether or not Hydaelyn is sundered.

I've seen people saying that someone in the LL said that she was sundered...or maybe it was the Watcher, or both. I don't have screenshots on hand and I don't remember it from the LL but I think the general assumption (which could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time) is that she was sundered.

[linayar]

It doesn't really matter how many ways you want to phrase it. If anything, he should already be incarcerated and instead is being allowed to take a position of power because of kept secrets. He cannot do a single thing that is worse than what he has already done. He is no longer needed to solve the problem at hand and is only a perceived hindrance because she allows him to be. And upsetting him is a complete nonstarter of a reason. He is absolutely unimportant compared to the problem at hand.

Imagine not telling world leaders about an alien threat because you're afraid of making the President of France sad. Oh no. But he might be the one person to make a difference. Guess we'll all just die instead. Ridiculous.

Of course it matters how it's phrased, because as you've just demonstrated, you've created a strawman with that entire second paragraph of your post. So, yes, that is indeed ridiculous the way you've phrase it, but it's also irrelevant to the story.

the complete inaction of Venat.

How do you know that? As a former member of the Convocation, Venat would be one of the resources used to try to help find a solution. It is only after Zodiark had solved the issue that Venat and her group disagreed with the Convocation in the matters of reviving their dead.

Yeah, the way in which the protagonists react to killing people they know have been given a raw deal is pretty unsettling. It's why I don't consider any of them to be heroes no matter how often the game tries to pretend otherwise.

I think that depends on your moral value.

I don't consider "given a raw deal" an excuse for wanting to kill me, and blaming it on someone else who "put" you in that position is not an excuse either. Everyone is responsible for their own action, not society, not someone else in particular.

So, yes, anyone who is brave enough to challenge these murderers is a hero to me.