Yoshi-P Statement on Player Feedback

[Theodric]

Like this guy. Calling a desire to want less vitriol and toxicity "tone policing". It's not a bad thing to want people to express their opinions in respectful ways, and as much as you're trying to use "tone policing" to paint it in a negative light, some forms of expressing opinions SHOULD be policed, such as those that demean and dehumanize the person at the other end.

I'll confess, I'm not sure why you're quoting me when my point was a general statement and not directed at anyone in particular - or why there's an attempt to frame an acknowledgement of nuance as some grave sin or reasonable point. Furthermore, please do feel free to show me where I excused abuse given that I specifically stated in my post that the terms of service should be adhered to.

[Driavna]

I'll confess, I'm not sure why you're quoting me when my point was a general statement and not directed at anyone in particular - or why there's an attempt to frame an acknowledgement of nuance as some grave sin or reasonable point. Furthermore, please do feel free to show me where I excused abuse given that I specifically stated in my post that the terms of service should be adhered to.

I think we are back to what everyone consider to be toxic. In this game for a while being blunt or dry seems to be equivalent of being toxic.

An example: person X is failing mechanic Y and wiping the party a few times in a row.

Blunt: Hey X, you are doing that wrong. Do this instead.

Toxic: OMG you piece of sxxx stop wiping us and learn to play!

As right now both are considered actionable if reported. To me makes no sense and I consider it a good example of tone policing that always rubbed me the wrong way. Even if in game I'm the type of person that will try to be as nice as possible.

[Avatre]

I think we are back to what everyone consider to be toxic. In this game for a while being blunt or dry seems to be equivalent of being toxic.

An example: person X is failing mechanic Y and wiping the party a few times in a row.

Blunt: Hey X, you are doing that wrong. Do this instead.

Toxic: OMG you piece of sxxx stop wiping us and learn to play!

As right now both are considered actionable if reported. To me makes no sense and I consider it a good example of tone policing that always rubbed me the wrong way. Even if in game I'm the type of person that will try to be as nice as possible.

I forgo the "Hey X" and just say "Anyone need an explanation or elaboration on that mechanic?". Sometimes the guilty party will speak up, often times it will be someone else who wasn't failing the mechanic so we go into an explanation. That tends to work better, and tends to be a surefire way to ensure that they can't file a report for "harassment" by calling them out for failing mechanics.

[Thatusernameistaken]

I'll confess, I'm not sure why you're quoting me when my point was a general statement and not directed at anyone in particular - or why there's an attempt to frame an acknowledgement of nuance as some grave sin or reasonable point. Furthermore, please do feel free to show me where I excused abuse given that I specifically stated in my post that the terms of service should be adhered to.

I guess we see very different amounts of nuance in this argument then. To me it's very cut and dry that it's fine to have a negative opinion as long as it's expressed in non-toxic ways that don't demean or dehumanize. I can't think of a single scenario where I'd be like "Well ackshually...maybe in this scenario it's ok to be a toxic a-hole when giving my feedback.". So I see very little to no nuance in this discussion, and I'm genuinely curious what nuance you see that would ever make it acceptable or beneficial to be a toxic a-hole when giving feedback. This is why I think the tone policing argument holds no weight here. Assuming you also can't conceive of an acceptable scenario to be a toxic a-hole when giving feedback, then it's perfectly reasonable to police out toxic a-hole behavior and bringing it up as some form of nuance is just silly when we all agree it needs to happen.

[Lauront]

Like this guy. Calling a desire to want less vitriol and toxicity "tone policing". It's not a bad thing to want people to express their opinions in respectful ways, and as much as you're trying to use "tone policing" to paint it in a negative light, some forms of expressing opinions SHOULD be policed, such as those that demean and dehumanize the person at the other end.

Interesting - are you claiming the TOS don't do that?

[Kaurhz]

Interesting - are you claiming the TOS don't do that?

Not adequately on the forums in many cases, sadly.

But then there are posts which arguably do fall within adhering to the TOS whilst still being outright rude and disrespectful.

[Accolades]

My problem with FFXIV is it is your standard MMO and I am sick of this model. For example you can completely strip away the entire leveling process give everyone level whatever the max is and you would have the SAME GAME specially sense everything is gated by MSQ which can be bypassed. I refuse to play for hours or days for a story.

You could make the leveling be done with gear but gear in this game is useless as it is heavily dependent on ilevel which is beyond stupid. Of course this wouldn't work in this game because of the stat ilevel.

Another problem I have in this game is the dungeons. They are ALL the same. Wall to wall pulls, aoe, boss and repeat. All for currency to buy gear with a higher ilevel. Repeat this for however many jobs you have and wait till next expansion to do it again.

Lots of people say endwalker was going to be good and was adding new stuff but none of it was new you added jobs, new zones, new raids and new quests. This is exactly the same thing that was added in every expansion. So what was "New". I see nothing original or ground breaking. This was all done before.

Bottom line for me this game does not have any excitement other then the sex appeal from glamours and the nostalgia from old final fantasy games. There is way more excitement in games such as Albion online and Dark Soul genre games. I for one can not wait for Elden Ring.

I did try to play this game have all expansion and endwalker but I cannot play this game as it is really boring to play. The story is not enough for me to play this. I dont care how good it is. It should have been a movie or a book not a game.

[Senn]

But then there are posts which arguably do fall within adhering to the TOS whilst still being outright rude and disrespectful.

In my time on the forums, I've noticed a few people who would use thinly veiled insults or made terrible implications about people - just enough so that they weren't violating the ToS, but enough to get the message accross.
I think disagreements and feedback, even negative feedback, is ok. But there's no need to be rude or disrespectful. Just be polite. It's not tone policing, it's common decency.

[SenorPatty]

Tone policing is often a method exploited to shut down opposing viewpoints. More often than not, it pays little heed to differences in background, personality and culture. Or the simple fact that English is not everybody's first language.

So long as a post isn't in violation of the terms of service, I don't think it's really of much benefit for a subsection of customers to try and dictate how feedback is presented.

Furthermore, in my experience just because someone is a little brash or hot headed it does not mean that they are a terrible person. Such individuals are often prone to passion and sticking up for others even if they disagree with those self same individuals.

On the other hand, I've found that many of those eager to police thought, tone and opinions are amongst the first to drive a dagger into someone's back so long as they stand to gain something from doing so.

Exceptions exist in both cases, of course...so take it with a pinch of salt.

Bro,

You really gonna say that if someone can't say something without insulting someone, that's thought policing? Is it really that hard for someone to be neutral/civil and say "this ain't right" instead of "this ain't right, dumbass"?

Yikes.

[Theodric]

Bro,

You really gonna say that if someone can't say something without insulting someone, that's thought policing? Is it really that hard for someone to be neutral/civil and say "this ain't right" instead of "this ain't right, dumbass"?

Yikes.

I think that is a rather deceptive take on my post, or at least missing a key element:

So long as a post isn't in violation of the terms of service, I don't think it's really of much benefit for a subsection of customers to try and dictate how feedback is presented.