Confusion (of the highest order) about Venat and Sundering

[Kordarion]

Yes, yes it is. It is a state that was imposed upon everyone without their consent. If I nuked a country and subjected them to multigenerational radiation poisoning, for future generations that isn't "just their natural lives", that is something I did to them.


Yes, it is morally problematic to strip somebody of their agency, which is exactly what Venat did. The conditions of suffering and conflict she created is exactly what she wanted. That is not to say that in every instance nobody has any individual culpability for their own wrongdoing, but Venat created the context for all of this suffering to take place, meaning she is personally partly responsible. In choosing to create the sundered world Venat is effectively it's goddess, it's progenitor, it's "Mother" if you will, and this image of the world is the one she wished to cultivate.


I would argue that is killing them. They weren't just given a haircut, they were fundamentally altered to the point that those they once were no longer existed.

I'm not quite sure how best to respond to the first part of your statement without causing more problems with any less than properly thought out responses, so ill have to hold off on that for the moment.

For your second point the reason I would argue that your line of thinking is worse in that case is that sure Venat stole people's agency when it came to being an ancient and living in their society, which I agree is wrong, but then sort of didn't afterwards. Obviously we know she messed around occasionally, the whole hear, feel, think mantra, but other than that everyone else that comes after pretty much retains their sense of agency. Sure you could argue she has still stolen their agency but at some point it gets so far from the event that saying Hydaelyn is still stealing their agency becomes a convolutedly bad joke of what could have been to the point where you could never possibly predict it acurately. But by your line of thinking you have reduced them to never being able to have agency in their own world even by such a time where it would once more be wholly their own choice, and that is why I think your take is more morally problematic than Venat's actions.

On your third point, thinking about it, transforming them like she does is akin to killing them.

[Shookbeast]

Addendum:

My main concern with both of these theories is what happened to Azem.

In one version we get 14 less powerful Azems each running around their own planet (with plenty of time to realize what’s happened and try to undo or mitigate the problems caused by the Sundering).

In the other, Azem, (and everyone else), gets poofed out of existence - to make way for completely new people, powered by sundered souls.

I think I prefer Theory #1. It leaves a lot of possibilities open. For example - what if Emet attempts a rejoining very soon after the Sundering - which leads to the destruction of the 13th, and the creation of the Void? Not only is he down a planet - but he’s down an Azem! He’s only got 12 left (not counting the one on the source). So he gathers them up, and plops them on the source to create a new convocation. The original 12…

I know that’s a bit far-fetched - but with 14 copies of everyone running around post-sundering… things could get weird.

[Lurina]

How people read the specifics of the Sundering vis-a-vis human lifespan is going to differ depending if they view FFXIV's universe as only existing meaningfully as a contrast to our own - as fiction defined by what it says about reality - or if they view it as a world meant to stand on its own as well.

If it only exists in relation to our world, then the Sundering only creates the status quo, where people live normal length lifespans. This is hard to judge as super terrible, since, well, we deal with it every day. It's just how it is, barring any revolution in biological science.

However, if we treat Etheirys as its own reality, it comes across as a pretty abominable act, regardless of whether or not it was justified. The natural state of affairs was one where humans, and probably all beings, lived a much, much longer amount of time... And now an unnatural status quo has been created where everyone dies incredibly young. If would be like if, in order to solve some existential problem real-world mankind was facing, somebody permanently lowered our lifespans to only 20 years, forever. If I did that to anyone in this thread right now, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't hold back in calling me responsible for their impending death.

[Iscah]

I have to say I really don't understand why the writers chose the route of "Venat deliberately caused the Sundering" when there were other neater and less questionable (and more consistent with past information) ways to have it happen. It could have been an accident or an unexpected result of sundering Zodiark or it really was cosmically necessary for some reason, and once it had happened, the suffering that would be wrought to repair the world would be worse than the effects of being sundered in the first place.

I feel like the writers may not have had enough of a clear idea of what happened when they set out the earlier parts of the plot, and now haven't been able to bring the answers together successfully. Either that or the original idea got changed and lost in a lot of workshopping and they failed to notice that it doesn't really work in the larger scheme of things.

[SilverArrow20XX]

I don't think it's really a power level thing.
Zodiark's Dark element is activeness and chaos, which was good for empowering the planet's aetherial flow, and protect it from Meteion. As well as dictating the laws of nature.
Hydaelyn's Light element is stillness and order, which was good for imprisoning, segmenting, and organizing.