What are your crazy theories after Endwalker

[Iscah]

I'd rather see him stick things out with the Students, and realize through his dealings with his tribe that he already had a "real" family: his father was Galuf all along, and his sister is Krile. So rather than G'raha Nunh, I think I'd rather see Raha Baldesion.

I do like that idea. It seems a lot more "him" than becoming nunh.

(Though I wouldn't rule out him becoming leader-not-nunh of the tribe at some point, especially if he gets involved with the Allagan ruins, but not within the scope of this story.)

I do have to wonder how much character development they could work in for him in the hypothetical "Corvos as relic zone" though. If it's outside of MSQ they can't have him making any life-changing decisions that would alter his ongoing status in the main story. Unless they're planning to write him out of it...? But that's getting to several layers of hypothetical at once.


I do have to say though, having learned that he got (essentially) pragmatically disowned as part of an effort to cover up the tribe's links to Allag, that explains a longstanding oddity as to why he was ever allowed to go off and become a Sharlayan historian instead of sticking with the tribe and probably being nunh by default, if - from what we previously knew - they need to pass down the Allagan Eye and the previous generations' bearers were his father and grandfather.

I'm not sure that he can't pass it down, though he did say it was happening less reliably in recent generations. However, given all that has happened with the tower, he may feel that the tribe have fulfilled their duty by maintaining it to this point and it no longer needs to be passed along with the same urgency.

I know ARR tends to ignore the "voluntary sexual slavery" aspect of the nunh role on account of age ratings, conflating it with a position of "leader" instead, but even as subtext it makes me uncomfortable.

If it's voluntary, is it slavery? But yeah, it's weird to us, but it's just a completely different cultural concept for them. I get the impression that they probably just regard it as more of a practical matter.

Maybe it will change with time, at least for the less isolated tribes, as more members interact with other cultures that have more of the "monogamous pair" view of relationships. (It certainly seems to be rubbing off on M'zhet Tia even if he does declare his intent to become nunh in the same breath as trying to flirt with J'olhmyn.)

Certainly Raha, having spent so much of his life away from Seeker culture, is unlikely to regard it in the same way as someone who has been in that culture all their life.

Of course, more traditional Seekers might find it just as weird, or even selfish, that someone would choose to take a dedicated partner instead of doing what's best for the survival of the tribe as a whole.

(Different clan, but there's a bit in the Postmoogle quest about Moon Keepers where - aside of everything else going on - Mauh remarks that it's unnatural for someone to take a single partner. Without delving further into it, you can instantly see they just have a different attitude to what we would think is normal and expect people to aspire to.)

Overall it's just an interesting alternate mindset that the writers have invented and then never explored, or only poked at nervously while apparently hoping people don't look at it too closely and realise what they're talking about.



On a separate note, while we're generally on the same wavelength regarding our favourite catboy, you seem to have some interesting takes on certain events...

(Aenore tries to get in his pants and just ends up confused).

(There was also the whole thing with Lyna where she was all "help grampa's hot now" and his attitude was basically "I changed your diapers." Comic gold.)

I seem to have missed this "comic scene" with Lyna. I don't recall her having anything more than the understandable amount of confusion on discovering her grandfather looks the same age as herself. Or probably just having to get used to seeing his face at all, really, when he's been a shadowed mystery all her life.

And all that happened with Aenor, as far as I recall, was that she tried to flirt with him and came to the conclusion that despite his young appearance he talks like an old man.

[RyuDragnier]

My theory? During the Hydaelyn/Zodiark problems right before the Sundering, Azem was dealing with another threat, one that dealt with the lifestream of the planet itself, one that threatened to destroy Etheirys from the inside out. Before the Sundering occurred, Azem had figured out where the threat had originally come from, but before they could get to it, the Sundering occurred. 6.1 and the expansions following will deal with that threat slowly appearing again as we venture to new unexplored lands, along with some of the past of Azem coming to light.

[Fenral]

I do have to wonder how much character development they could work in for him in the hypothetical "Corvos as relic zone" though. If it's outside of MSQ they can't have him making any life-changing decisions that would alter his ongoing status in the main story. Unless they're planning to write him out of it...? But that's getting to several layers of hypothetical at once.

I'm definitely with you in worrying that he could get Midgardsormr'd, since this is kind of their window to do it without needing to explain why we never call G'raha anymore in the next expac. He is, however, still stupidly popular, and the law of conservation of detail would additionally suggest he can't really leave the core cast until we've been to Meracydia, at the earliest. We don't need another entire continent's worth of feigned ignorance at the complexities of Allagan ruins.

I think, at worst, he might lose his Allagan superpowers (since they still have a timer), and end up pulling a post-coil Alisaie: dropping off radar for a while so he can show up later with an expansion job, possibly with combat-ready Krile in tow.

I'm not sure that he can't pass it down, though he did say it was happening less reliably in recent generations. However, given all that has happened with the tower, he may feel that the tribe have fulfilled their duty by maintaining it to this point and it no longer needs to be passed along with the same urgency.

The trait as G'raha inherited it was no longer enough to accomplish the purpose for which it was passed on, and logically hadn't been for many generations. This was a plot point way back in CT. He was convinced the "temporary" transfusion he got from Doga and Unei was the end of it, and that's what led to him sealing himself in the Tower all those years ago (a.k.a. earlier "this" year).

The messier question they've never brought up is: would Salina have approved? (Righting course to: back on topic!)

G'raha never knew what the Eye was for, was eventually told that it was for operating the Tower, got one stray voice clip from Salina corroborating that, and was only finally released from that purpose by Ramnbroes, who did it for the right reasons but is otherwise entirely unqualified to make that call on her behalf.

So now, suddenly, we've been reminded that there's a whole tribe out there that knows way more on the subject, and somehow G'raha was never able to check in with them in the course of his research? I assume Galuf forbid him from making contact while the Empire was a threat, but if G'raha meets them now, how might they feel about his choices? If it's left at "cool story, bro" then the meeting might as well not happen. So it probably won't be.

I think Salina had a more specific plan, but we don't yet know what it is. For whatever reason, I've always felt she'd work better as an antagonist. Maybe because G'raha used to look like like a palette-swap of Zidane (with Trance Kuja colors), and the G could really stand for "Genome."

If it's voluntary, is it slavery? But yeah, it's weird to us, but it's just a completely different cultural concept for them. I get the impression that they probably just regard it as more of a practical matter.
[...]
Of course, more traditional Seekers might find it just as weird, or even selfish, that someone would choose to take a dedicated partner instead of doing what's best for the survival of the tribe as a whole.
[...]
Overall it's just an interesting alternate mindset that the writers have invented and then never explored, or only poked at nervously while apparently hoping people don't look at it too closely and realise what they're talking about.

The idea that men are selfish for not siring children is actually still very prevalent in our modern society, though understandably not a pressure you'd ever be directly exposed to (as a woman, you're already supposed to be making lots of babies, and I'm sure you have plenty of feelings on that that I won't ask you to share). I'm not blaming or judging you or the writers for anything, It's just funny what perspective does. I'm sure I'm supposed to leave it at "woo, yeah, catgirl harem!" and this is definitely a personal problem on my part, but I can't just look at 6000 years of unbroken patrilineal inheritance and say "oh, yes, not a single heir to the Eye took issue with their lot in life." (Which is of course not to suggest that you'd have to be gay to not want to stud yourself out to dozens of women. Men of all orientations have their reasons to want or not want sex and/or children.) Wouldn't one of them have tried to end it?

That said, if we do end up meeting Salina (maybe she's in stasis on an Allagan starship), she could have some interesting Venat parallels if she comes to regret what she put Desch's bloodline through. That Salina and Desch are lovers in FF3 canon but quite explicitly not in FF14 canon itself has some interesting implications, since it suggests the possibility that she broke things off and (by virtue of her request) pressured him into being with other women (who were viable), rather than continue their inter-species romance. And assuming the "once per generation" thing is some kind of coded rule, whoever got it next basically had no rights to their own body. Even leaving the whole sex thing aside, there were probably ancestor-G'rahas who never had the freedom to adventure. How would Salina feel about that?


And finally, you weren't supposed to take these particular digs seriously but...

I seem to have missed this "comic scene" with Lyna. I don't recall her having anything more than the understandable amount of confusion on discovering her grandfather looks the same age as herself. Or probably just having to get used to seeing his face at all, really, when he's been a shadowed mystery all her life.

You're right that it's treated very seriously in-game, I just recall reading cringey statements around the 5.2-times to the effect of "oh, they're so in love," so it was funny (to me) for the Exarch to torpedo that ship with extreme prejudice.

And all that happened with Aenor, as far as I recall, was that she tried to flirt with him and came to the conclusion that despite his young appearance he talks like an old man.

I am way reading between the lines, but the very patch before she was contemplating trying to pull him into a four-way with her, Ocher, and Hoary. Since I very much doubt that ended up happening, I think the joke(?) was that he's so frigid he even cooled down Aenor. It's not what I'd call "a good bit," but it did happen.


ONE MORE EDIT: Please don't worry too much about my weird, new-age-y bulls*kupo*t. It's just me being me. Spec-fic raises issues like this all the time and I'm just way too used to poking at them.

[Fenral]

This has gone places.

I'm sorry. Welcome to Lore!

[Iscah]

The big thing with diverse cultures is that they won't all comply with your personal opinion about how things should ideally be. They'll have their own values, and whether you agree with them or not - whether every person in that culture agrees with them or not - collectively they have endured as traditions over time and if a majority of people in the culture are following those traditions, the culture will continue.

And yes, a lot of those cultures will have some kind of strict rules and responsibilities that set the path of someone's life according to attributes they can't control, like their gender or being marked with a special eye colour or identified as the reincarnation of someone. By our modern values that prioritise individuality, that might seem "bad". But for the people who are in that culture, even if they maybe don't feel happy about their circumstances, neither they nor anyone around them considers it to be a choice that is available to them. It's just how life works for them, and even the ones who want to rebel might not be socially able to - or other values instilled in them might override that personal unwillingness.

I suppose my own preference is to create characters who do adhere to their unique culture and are influenced by its values, rather than those who would outright object to it.

For the more traditionally-minded of my Seeker OCs, I haven't really poked at his thoughts on the whole situation (partly because the game is so hesitant to go in-depth about their cultural details and views) but I suppose it's just matter of fact. Go out, adventure, get stronger, and at some stage in the future pick a fight with a nunh and see if he's more worthy of the position. It's what Seeker men do and how their culture keeps going, generation after generation.

Of course, not all men are obliged to participate in the system, and there will be some who are just tias their whole life with no interest in changing that. Again it doesn't help that we have no in-depth explanation of the cultural view on that, or whether they can take partners at all.

G'raha never knew what the Eye was for, ... So now, suddenly, we've been reminded that there's a whole tribe out there that knows way more on the subject, and somehow G'raha was never able to check in with them in the course of his research?

I don't feel like it's guaranteed that the rest of the tribe understands how it works either - but assuming they do, I think it's likely that the imperial occupation made it impossible for him to contact the tribe until now.

I think Salina had a more specific plan, but we don't yet know what it is.

We still have the plot thread to pursue of her being name-dropped in Heaven-on-High.

I'm sure I'm supposed to leave it at "woo, yeah, catgirl harem!" and this is definitely a personal problem on my part, but I can't just look at 6000 years of unbroken patrilineal inheritance and say "oh, yes, not a single heir to the Eye took issue with their lot in life." Wouldn't one of them have tried to end it?

I'm not saying that there wouldn't be anyone in 6000 years who was unhappy about the situation. But at the same time, that's 6000 years of those people being brought up instilled with the importance of carrying on their tribe's sacred duty, being taught to regard it as more important than their personal feelings in the short term.

(Besides, probable or not, apparently it did manage to get passed down unbroken over all those generations or Raha wouldn't be here as he is today.)

And again, I think in a society like what we know of Seekers, it's possible that they have a much more pragmatic, less romantic view of... coupling, I think one of the U tribeswomen terms it.

That said, if we do end up meeting Salina (maybe she's in stasis on an Allagan starship), she could have some interesting Venat parallels if she comes to regret what she put Desch's bloodline through. That Salina and Desch are lovers in FF3 canon but quite explicitly not in FF14 canon itself has some interesting implications, since it suggests the possibility that she broke things off and (by virtue of her request) pressured him into being with other women (who were viable), rather than continue their inter-species romance. And assuming the "once per generation" thing is some kind of coded rule, whoever got it next basically had no rights to their own body. Even leaving the whole sex thing aside, there were probably ancestor-G'rahas who never had the freedom to adventure. How would Salina feel about that?

It feels like you're applying the worst possible reading of people's intentions here, portraying it as something that Salina "inflicted" upon Desch when there are all sorts of other possible scenarios.

It's just as conceivable that, firstly, Salina and Desch "could not" be lovers or at least not have children together - perhaps physically, perhaps socially, perhaps by one's culture or the other.

If Desch's tribe was already following what we know as Seeker culture, he may have considered himself bound to it. He may have offered that Salina entrust her blood to be kept safe by his tribe and their longstanding traditions.

Maybe they continued to be lovers, seeing that as separate from the physical business of passing down royal blood to the next generation.

And yes, for the future generations (perhaps very nearly for G'raha himself) it would be potentially a miserable thing to be saddled with this duty from birth, but still it happened. Maybe it was the only way, maybe the best way, maybe just what their culture insisted upon. If it wasn't Desch's descendents then maybe it would need to be someone else instead, perhaps with a less stable and reliable culture to keep the bloodline going all this time.

[Fenral]

And yes, for the future generations (perhaps very nearly for G'raha himself) it would be potentially a miserable thing to be saddled with this duty from birth, but still it happened. Maybe it was the only way, maybe the best way, maybe just what their culture insisted upon. If it wasn't Desch's descendents then maybe it would need to be someone else instead, perhaps with a less stable and reliable culture to keep the bloodline going all this time.

No matter how hard I try, it always seems you confuse my readings of "Hey, there's maybe some messed up stuff here they could work with," with some kind of moral criticism of the writers or a desire to retroactively change the narrative or setting. That is absolutely not the case, and as such I'm not really sure how to respond to anything else you said. So instead I'll just ignore it and move on. Sorry. (Everyone else following the thread sighs with relief.)

Ishikawa took the tiniest hints at G'raha's insecurity dropped in side conversations in the CT storyline and ran with them to construct the incredibly complicated sacrifice gambit we saw in Shadowbringers, and then she took years of forum debate on Hydaelyn to create Venat in Endwalker. I don't see anything wrong with suggesting she could do the same again with other details we took at face value (it seems to be her thing, honestly), but this particular subject is a bit touchy for people, so I'll drop it.

[EdwinLi]

Considering Emet said some of the unknown civilization we do not know about in the unknown 60% to 75% of the world may surprise us. I suspect we may get locations that may call back to certain FF games.

It will be interesting what kind of inspiration they may have if certain unknown civilizations are a call back to specific FF game especially the more technology advanced FF games.

A more fantasy based civilization I do hope to see is Grandshelt from FF Brave Exvius. It may give them the opportunity to add Grandshelt Knight Job into FF14 which is Rain's job.

[Alleluia]

Not crazy per say, but I just camme across two b team (c team?) scions in the Drowning Wench who say they are looking to book passage to Aerslaent in the northern empty, apparently ancestral home of the roegadyn. So, I think we’re going there at some point. Could tie into the treasure islands beyond the blind frost Hades mentioned.

[Recon1o6]

regarding graha's romantic interest i always thought he was a WoLsexual. Ystola also discusses him being a nunh by virtue of land ownership as he had the crystarium after coming back from the first. So its not completely out there that he'd be nunh without a group of catgirls after him.

still disappointing there's no dialogue in the msq to tell the others we're married when getting hit on by alisae or graha if the player has undergone the eternal bonding.


my guesses

-Corvos is either relic zone or future expansion place
-myths of the realm is going to take us to some of the nooks and crannies we've either wondered about but never looked into OR new places in eorzea entirely
-We STILL wont discover what is under silvertear since hydaelyn never told us and middy's having a nap
-Azdaja having crossed the barrier between shards seems likely since Vrtra said that middy arrived post sundering, unless middy either misremembered or lied to vrtra, that means its only Azdaja and Ratatoskr to have gone between shards and the latter is dead as of the start of the dragonsong war.
The first and the void had to get their draconic things somewhere (Drahn means dragon. Drahn on the first are au ra, one of the gwibers was explicitly made to recreate a dragon, the void has a dragon as boss fight in the World of Darkness, not to mention the brinoyak type of dragon showing up everywhere)
-All the places emet said and other scions mentioned after the msq are going to be side content or msq later

[Alleluia]

that means its only Azdaja and Ratatoskr to have gone between shards and the latter is dead as of the start of the dragonsong war.

Ratatoskr is confirmed to have gone between world shards???