Thread: The Reasoning behind The Sundering? (*6.0 Endwalker Spoilers*)

Venat herself and members of the group that she recruited went directly to the Convocation to try to convince them that what they were planning to do was not the correct choice. We got an extremely distilled essence of Venat's message in the Post-Elpis cutscene, and we got the brief recording in Anamnesis Anyder showing us what some of the group she associated with were thinking and doing. That isn't the sum total of every discussion they ever had with the Convocation, with the remainder of society, or amongst themselves. There is no place where that could ever be shown, it is outside the scope of the narrative. She would have clearly spoken to the Convocation and society in terms that are more in-depth than the handful of sentences describing her philosophy and goals, in a manner far more persuasive.

I don't agree that it is confirmed that she simply went along the timeline assuming that if she followed the extremely vague broad strokes recap of what we've been through on a personal level that it would mean success. We have no idea what happened at all in multiple eras, we don't know what caused the majority of calamities or what befell the people involved. We have no clue what really prompted Wind, Fire, Lightning, or Ice. She can't use that to plan anything, she doesn't know any aspect of the future that we can't have time to tell her or don't know ourselves. Moreover, Venat told us explicitly that she would never take anything for granted. What Venat seemed to truly endeavor to do was to allow for possibility and respond accordingly. What we did was give her hope for the future.

TLDR; They tried. She tried. But it was no use.

Originally Posted by Lyth

Sure. Except that Amaurot wasn't governed that way. They were ruled by a council of 14 self-selected and powerful individuals who made hard decisions on the basis of what they personally felt was right for the rest of their society. They did not poll the audience, and they did not phone a friend. Neither Emet nor Venat would have cared one whit what your personal opinion on their governance was. It just so happened that the Azems won the long game, and our current society is the end result. You're free to be salty about that if you like.

I don’t think it’s salt so much as people simply pointing out the flaws and contradictions of the expansions themes and writing. Something it seems many many people agree with based on this thread alone. Don’t understand the passive aggressiveness here, it seems you’re letting your bias against the ancients cloud your judgement. Especially based on your previous post of you calling the ancients out for summoning zodiark and getting angry at people for critiquing venat.

Originally Posted by Veloran

Sure is lucky they were bailed out by a godlike hero before 75+% of their people were dead and their civilization along with the entire rest of the world was reduced to a smoking ruin.

Yes, it was incredibly fortunate. Life is full of good fortune and happiness as much as it is full of despair. Good thing the message was never "in order to endure suffering, you must pull yourself up by your boostraps, never relying on anyone or anything else to help you through your pain."

The story of Endwalker is full of examples of people helping each other to face despair, from acts of amazing heroism to simple acts of kindness. This doesn't undermine the fact Matysa's recitation of the words of thier ancestors helped to calm an entire village. (And this was as the Final Days were still raging around them, when they believed thier leader was dead and before Vrta had revealed himself.)

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

...

Just because events didn't work out the way that you wanted them to doesn't make the writing 'flawed'. You're welcome to whatever opinion you like, and you certainly don't need to justify it.

Originally Posted by Lyth

Just because events didn't work out the way that you wanted them to doesn't make the writing 'flawed'. You're welcome to whatever opinion you like, and you certainly don't need to justify it.

It’s not about what i wanted. In the end i technically got what i wanted. Venat as a mentally ill psychopath. However, there are objective flaws with the story. Whether you see them or not is your decision.

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

It’s not about what i wanted. In the end i technically got what i wanted. Venat as a mentally ill psychopath. However, there are objective flaws with the story. Whether you see them or not is your decision.

You're really out there calling people biased while you yourself are using radical, harsh terms like mentally ill psychopath to describe Venat.
Pot. calling. the. kettle. black. Come on now...

Originally Posted by Tehmon

You're really out there calling people biased while you yourself are using radical, harsh terms like mentally ill psychopath to describe Venat.
Pot. calling. the. kettle. black. Come on now...

First of all, she isn’t real, she’s a fictional character, let’s remember that. Secondly, there have been far worse terms used to describe certain characters, even in this very thread alone. Either way it’s my opinion of her character, i’m entitled to it.

Originally Posted by Lyth

It's always interesting seeing the forums' take on characters.

Amaurotians: 'You sacrificed 75% of our population to a supreme deity, and now you want to sacrifice the rest of life on the planet to it? My life is a chip in your pile, ante up!'
Forums: 'Aww. Can we not save them, though?'

Emet: 'Let's trigger extinction level events in each of the star's reflections to free a supreme deity that we can sacrifice the remainder of these inferior beings to!'
Forums: 'Aww. Did he really have to die, though?'

Venat: 'I'll hold off this idiotic creation for a few millennia to buy time for the buns to invent space travel and for you to stop the Final Days (or run away and start a new life on another Aether dense planet, if you so choose). Good luck!'
Forums:
'Mary Sue!'
'Villain!'
'Why do you believe some random person who claims to be from the future anyways?'
'Why didn't you tell those geniuses on the Convocation the information you got from said random person who claims to be from the future?'
'Why did you have to be mean to Zodiark? Couldn't he save us from bird girl after he was fed the souls of all life on the planet?'
'Why did you have to take away everyone's god powers?'

Honestly, if I'd encountered opinions like that I would have sundered everything as well. Half of an INT score of zero is still zero, so they're honestly not losing out on that much.

This is the bias im talking about.

Ah, I see we're back to ad hominem.

Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

First of all, she isn’t real, she’s a fictional character, let’s remember that. Secondly, there have been far worse terms used to describe certain characters, even in this very thread alone. Either way it’s my opinion of her character, i’m entitled to it.

Except it's not an opinion, it is specific claim about Venat as a character and her motivations (that she was motivated by mentally ill psychopathy) given that there is no indication of that being the case in the text, it becomes an innaccurate claim.

You can dislike or disagree with a character all you like, but it's important to describe them and thier motivations accurately. Venat's motivation for the sundering was explicitly laid out in the Q&A too, and at no point did Yoshida say "she did it because she was just so mentally ill".

Originally Posted by KariTheFox

Except it's not an opinion, it is specific claim about Venat as a character and her motivations (that she was motivated by mentally ill psychopathy) given that there is no indication of that being the case in the text, it becomes an innaccurate claim.

You can dislike or disagree with a character all you like, but it's important to describe them and thier motivations accurately. Venat's motivation for the sundering was explicitly laid out in the Q&A too, and at no point did Yoshida say "she did it because she was just so mentally ill".

She did so because she saw something and assumed it would end up that way. She then took playing god into her own hands. She’s either mentally ill or incredibly stupid(imo).It is an opinion. I’m sticking to it. You don’t have to like it, but i’ll continue to say it as much as i please. This isn’t any different from when people called the Garleans Nazi’s. That’s a specific claim that’s inaccurate, but no one said anything then. I’d rather we not play the favorites game here: I’m just going based off of what we know. Lied,kept secrets, then contradicts her own speeches. That’s what makes her a psychopath to me. She commits mass genocide and calls the remaining fragments her children, children whom she was going to have be left to rot had the WoL not succeeded and the moon ship plan needed to spring into action.