Thread: The Reasoning behind The Sundering? (*6.0 Endwalker Spoilers*)

Originally Posted by Denishia

Ritual Suicide

I'm not sure why people want this term to stick to the Ancients as if that's what it is.

It's literally showcasing that the Ancients could be physically immortal if they wanted or needed to be, but that they still don't consider themselves above what's supposed to be the natural cycle of their planet. To them, their souls are its blood. Without blood, the planet dies, and them with it. To return to the star is to ensure that the star stays alive for future generations.

It's the softest form of "death" imaginable, because they got to choose when it happened. Where it happened. How it happened. Who got to witness it. Maybe throw a party for it. With the full knowledge that they may very well stick new feet into the mud again one day, with a new face, and a strange affinity for the same favorite foods.

I basically see them as being akin to the Valar. Convocation of 14 and all that. There's just no Eru in this setting. And the timeless halls are within the planet, rather than without.

Originally Posted by Vyrerus

I'm not sure why people want this term to stick to the Ancients as if that's what it is.

It's literally showcasing that the Ancients could be physically immortal if they wanted or needed to be, but that they still don't consider themselves above what's supposed to be the natural cycle of their planet. To them, their souls are its blood. Without blood, the planet dies, and them with it. To return to the star is to ensure that the star stays alive for future generations.

It's the softest form of "death" imaginable, because they got to choose when it happened. Where it happened. How it happened. Who got to witness it. Maybe throw a party for it. With the full knowledge that they may very well stick new feet into the mud again one day, with a new face, and a strange affinity for the same favorite foods.

I basically see them as being akin to the Valar. Convocation of 14 and all that. There's just no Eru in this setting. And the timeless halls are within the planet, rather than without.

The reason I, at least, refer to it as ritual suicide is because it kind of is. It is at the very least suicide, as they are stated to be choosing to end their life, so that part is for certain. And it is a ritual suicide because it is an established part of their cultural identity, as we know it is a part of their culture/society to return to the lifestream once their mortal purpose is fulfilled.

In the west ritual suicide has very negative connotations due to cults like Heaven's Gate and the one in Jamestown, Guyana with the poisoned cool-aid, but it doesn't necessarily elsewhere. Take Japan for example, where the game developers are from, during feudal Japan Samurai used to commit Seppuku, a form of ritual sacrifice, when their cultural standards dictated so. In that way I view it as being a more benevolent and self deterministic form of that as opposed to the horrific acts of ritual suicide found in more western examples.

Edit: tldr, ritual suicide is a religious and/or cultural practice and that the ancient's cultural concept of returning to the star upon completing their purpose fits the bill.

Originally Posted by Kofufu

...

Note: I am not reading ten pages of discussion...

Basically, the sundering weakened zodiark and allowed him to be binded on the moon. And, basically weakening his influence on the star. The sundering of it's peoples souls like functions in two ways: it should theoretically allow the aether flow to remain in an accelerated state on multiple shards while allowing the development of a species capable of manipulating both aether and dynamis which the later totally caused the ancients creation magics to go berserk and invalidated the idea that Dynamis isn't as strong as aether but vice versa instead. The last days created this total emotional chaos that basically increased the dynamis on the planet proving that dynamis can easily overpower Aether. Just more the stagnant variety than the accelerated (darkness) Aether.

And, even more justification for it was that Zodiark tempered the convocation, because the majority desired a return to the past, which basically means that the convocation could end up repeatedly changing his influential make-up of a congress of souls that could have left the planet repeatedly sacrificing it's whole population by Ascian design because each side wanted would most likely want to return to "once was". Zodiark was never summoned to just "protect the planet", and the end result of that would just cause the planet to just, like, not exist, and break down into aetheric particle like the 13th shard but in like turbo

What I find particularly entertaining about Hesperos isn't his delusions of godhood, but the fact an Ancient wears glasses.

Capable of creating and destroying living things, but can't fix his eyesight.

Originally Posted by Cilia

What I find particularly entertaining about Hesperos isn't his delusions of godhood, but the fact an Ancient wears glasses.

Capable of creating and destroying living things, but can't fix his eyesight.

Maybe he wears them because he thinks he looks smart and sexy in them?

Originally Posted by Lyth

Are the Ancients truly immortal, though?

If they wanted to be, yes! <--- The keywords in what you quoted.

You listed two examples in the your post. It's considered unnatural and bad to their society, though. But look how relatively easy it is for them. Venat becomes Hydaelyn, and goes on living for 12,000 years + however many she lived prior to that in Ancient Etheirys.

Emet-selch somehow remains Unsundered, and then through dickbag means continues to live for 12,000 years + however long he lived before in Ancient Etheirys.

As far as Hesperos goes, it's more or less him saying that he found one of the ways an Ancient could become immortal. His method is even more vague than either of the ones we've seen firsthand.

As far as them talking about death in, "Euphemisms" embrace the Bacon Necktie, Lyth. It's not a euphemism. They literally don't die when their bodies do. Their souls go on living and come back in new flesh. Hell, Hades and Hythlodaeus "die" in the modern age, and are given a true chance at revival in Ultima Thule, but opt out of continuing to live.

As far as the ole Hermes denial? That's just a riverfall in Elpis, babe. He doesn't want to admit that choosing to return to the star is a good thing for society at large. New minds get to move into new positions, and have the pressure of bearing society's woes and weal. It lets them grow as people. If everyone in their society chose to continue living for however the hell long they can keep themselves going, then it'd always be the same minds taking care of everyone. The youth would grow up bridled by indolence, and the society would stagnate. I mean, look at how bad it is in our world where politicians don't live forever, but either have no term limits or life sentence terms OR prolong their agendas by raising their children into them.

Not too mention the fact that couples can go out together. You ever watched someone lose the love of their life, and then live on in shambles afterwards? It ain't pretty.

Originally Posted by Vyrerus

If they wanted to be, yes! <--- The keywords in what you quoted.

If an ancient has to become a primal, merge themselves with a mythic beast or cheat death by going to an in-between world when they should be returning to the aetherial sea to become immortal it doesn't mean they are naturally immortal. If a modern human found a way to become immortal that only affected themselves you wouldn't go around saying that all modern humans are immortal would you? To be fair whatever it is that the unsundered did to return after death could be something inherent to all ancients but as far as I am aware there is nothing that says it is.

Also you are sort of right when you say they don't die when their physical bodies do. As evident by Emet, Hythlodaeus and sundered like Livia, Ilberd, Minfillia and others when people in FF14 die they do remain themselves in the aetherial sea for a time, but evidently they don't permanently remain the same person in the aetherial sea as otherwise every character we meet would be able remember their past lives and the sundering memory loss wouldn't matter after a generation. Not to mention their are real world religions where when you die you still exist as yourself in the afterlife so that doesn't mean existence after death means you never died.