The coming balance changes to jobs

[Aiscence]

There's been multiple translations of this piece separately, I'll sum them up.

BLM/SAM confirmed getting buffed
PLD and MNK highly likely to get a buff
DNC likely to get a buff to its own damage rather than party damage
RPR not being nerfed
DRG is a candidate for buff

Explicit mention of "just because I didn't say your job, does not mean it won't get adjusted and we will definately look into adjusting them based on feedback given

Of course, since we know the devs do not read the official forums beyond the dps pages, drk's and healers will need to deflate their hopes again for any meaningful adjustments.

They literally just dont read it, there has been years of feedback about mch's latency problem, since HW. How Rapidfire was problematic, wildfire needed more leeway. Even in Stormblood we asked to have WF and overheat 11 seconds and downtime 9. It would have solved most latency problem without needing hige change. What did they do? made the whole job revolve around rapidfire and weaving in it.

[BristolRuss]

Not a single one of these is relevant to rDPS, since they're already accounted for within that exact same metric. Moreover, how did you suddenly forget that DRG's Battle Litany, the very first offensive raid buff added to the game, exists and fits solidly on that list? Giving its offensive benefit through crit doesn't exclude it from that list; it just makes it also affect healing and scale better as the expansion goes on.

DRG, which has no non-rDPS utility, should be faintly ahead of Monk and Reaper (each of whom have non-rDPS utility) in rDPS, but not for the reasons you're presenting here. NIN, arguably, should be even higher (again, faintly), as its rDPS is yet more finnicky.

What? In what world are skills like Brotherhood not relevant to rDPS? Brotherhood is specifically mentioned in the FFlogs documentation for what rDPS is:

https://www.fflogs.com/help/rdps

"rDPS stands for "raid-contributing DPS", and it is measuring how much damage you actually brought to the raid. The formula for it is:

rDPS = DPS - (damage gained from others' external buffs) + (damage given to others by your own external buffs)

For example, if you are a Monk, your rDPS would subtract out damage you gained from external buffs like Trick Attack or Battle Voice, but it would also add in damage you gave to others from Brotherhood."

If you had bothered to read my whole post you would have noticed I addressed Battle Litany just above the section you quoted.

Also, I remembered another grievance after I made my post - DRG also has more positionals than the other melee classes now.

[Aiscence]

I am a dirty casual that plays the game the best she can and understands, and I don't play healer, except WHM for hunts and funsies with trusts. But I was very surprised last night when I decided to level my 80 WHM doing some shared fates in EW. Since they were mostly adds fates, I was using mostly assize, holy, asylum and medica II refresh. I never had to rez anyone. I had lucid dreaming, thin air and all that up. But I had to drink ether bottles regularly to fill up mp. That had never happened to me before, so either I am missing something, or yes, WHM has a sudden mp issue...

You never really spam medica 2, or refresh it. Having it all the time up is just making your overheal for nothing and burn your mana, even in the past. You just use it as a way to heal you to full hp, with a bigger potency than medica 1, not as a "just in case i fuck up". If you lucid dream you should be fine outside of that, but it still burn through mana if you use medica 2 or just gcd heals

[Shurrikhan]

What? In what world are skills like Brotherhood not relevant to rDPS?

It is not separately relevant. You don't tune MNK to have less rDPS just because Brotherhood exists. It's ALREADY accounted for IN THE rDPS.

Monk having Mantra, a non-rDPS utility, for instance, would be a reason for it to deserve less rDPS than Samurai, Black Mage, Ninja, or Dragoon. Not Brotherhood, which is already part of said rDPS.

I'm guessing you didn't read beyond the first line concerning deserved balance:

Not a single one of these is relevant to rDPS [deserved by a given job], since they're already accounted for within that exact same metric.

[Oichi]

You never really spam medica 2, or refresh it. Having it all the time up is just making your overheal for nothing and burn your mana, even in the past. You just use it as a way to heal you to full hp, with a bigger potency than medica 1, not as a "just in case i fuck up". If you lucid dream you should be fine outside of that, but it still burn through mana if you use medica 2 or just gcd heals

Thanks a lot for the tip, I will be a lot more careful with that from now on <3

[BristolRuss]

It is not separately relevant. You don't tune MNK to have less rDPS just because Brotherhood exists. It's ALREADY accounted for IN THE rDPS.

Monk having Mantra, a non-rDPS utility, for instance, would be a reason for it to deserve less rDPS than Samurai, Black Mage, Ninja, or Dragoon. Not Brotherhood, which is already part of said rDPS.

I'm guessing you didn't read beyond the first line concerning deserved balance:

My point was that Monk and Reapers rDPS contributions are too high given how much personal DPS they bring to the table. Look at the numbers for the first week of savage. We'll start with nDPS so that rDPS contributions aren't counted - just personal DPS.

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...t&dpstype=ndps

Samurai and Black Mage are actually top at the moment, which you might expect from 'selfish' DPS classes. Note that Dragoon is a distant 5th, a long way behind the top 4. Now lets change the metric to rDPS and see what buffs like Brotherhood, Litany, Arcane Circle etc add:

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...gregate=amount

As you can see Monk and Reaper are now well in front of the selfish DPS to due their strong raid buffs. Dragoon, however, still can't catch up to, never mind overtake, Samurai and Black Mage and is a long way behind Reaper and Monk. With confirmed buffs for both SAM and BLM in 6.0.8 this gap is only going to increase and DRG will be a distant 5th in all metrics.

Anyway, even if SE addresses these issues and applies some potency bands aids, this doesn't address the other issues with the job that I raised in that Dragoon just feels worse to play than the other melee and really needs a job overhaul like Monk and Ninja have received. At the very least it needs some kind of damage mitigation ability that all the other melee's have.

[Shurrikhan]

My point was that Monk and Reapers rDPS contributions are too high given how much personal DPS they bring to the table.

Again, personal DPS is already included in rDPS. It is personal damage plus bonus damage granted to others minus bonus damage received from others. rDPS is also the only stat worth considering. How much of that is personal vs. granted to others is irrelevant outside of paper-thin wrappings of job flavor. And the only factor in how much rDPS one should have is their (non-rDPS, as opposed to number-shuffling) utility.

[Tanis_Ebonhart]

My Alt mains Monk so I will enjoy the buffs.

Poor Dark Knight though...

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

the majority of people unhappy with healing... is because they want to do MORE DPS. they dont want to queue as DPS, they want to queue as healers for faster times and only do DPS in dungeons.

so as a healer main, I cannot say there is a "valid reason" since my primary role is a healer, who can DPS on downtime. not as DPS who tosses out a heal or two if people complain about dying

I'm curious where did you get the idea about those disgusting main healers who doesn't want to que as a DPS... how dare they for -not- wanting to heal stupid!?

[wereotter]

My point was that Monk and Reapers rDPS contributions are too high given how much personal DPS they bring to the table. Look at the numbers for the first week of savage. We'll start with nDPS so that rDPS contributions aren't counted - just personal DPS.

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...t&dpstype=ndps

Samurai and Black Mage are actually top at the moment, which you might expect from 'selfish' DPS classes. Note that Dragoon is a distant 5th, a long way behind the top 4. Now lets change the metric to rDPS and see what buffs like Brotherhood, Litany, Arcane Circle etc add:

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...gregate=amount

As you can see Monk and Reaper are now well in front of the selfish DPS to due their strong raid buffs. Dragoon, however, still can't catch up to, never mind overtake, Samurai and Black Mage and is a long way behind Reaper and Monk. With confirmed buffs for both SAM and BLM in 6.0.8 this gap is only going to increase and DRG will be a distant 5th in all metrics.

Anyway, even if SE addresses these issues and applies some potency bands aids, this doesn't address the other issues with the job that I raised in that Dragoon just feels worse to play than the other melee and really needs a job overhaul like Monk and Ninja have received. At the very least it needs some kind of damage mitigation ability that all the other melee's have.

I feel like you're exaggerating.

I followed your link. Are they out of order? Sure, but to say that they're a long way off or a distant fifth is pretty extreme when you see that there's a less than 1% difference in rDPS separating reaper and dragoon. And once we filter out bad runs by going to the 50th percentile the rDPS difference between reaper and dragoon is 250. Any adjustments they make will have to look very minor because buffing too much will make one even more blatantly over powered than reaper is claimed to be now. Even summoner's recent conservative buff of 450 potency every two minutes added about 300 to its ranking and moved it up from being just above dancer to now above both bard and machinist. Add a similar buff to dragoon alone, and it will now be easily above reaper.