The current State of Casters 6.05 edition - balancing discussion

[Absimiliard]

The ok question to you "Why should anyone bring a smn over a rdm?" Please tell me what benefits a party gets for deciding to bring a smn over a rdm right now? Also, rdm being meme is a community problem and not a balance problem. I remember smn in ShB switching to rdm bc they didn't like smn rotation and the ghosting pet had. So I don't believe in this whole" RDM was dead after prog" meme yall keep bring up. Also at least rdm saw action during prog. Smn won't even sees that right now.

Currently there is no reason to bring SMN over RDM. I'm not disputing that point. I'm merely observing that putting SMN back into a position of dominance is in fact going to shaft RDM yet again. It would be a lot easier if they would just take Verraise off of dual cast. If we're ignoring job complexity as a factor, then why not let them have roughly equal DPS and similar Raise access?

[MrJPtheAssassin]

Currently there is no reason to bring SMN over RDM. I'm not disputing that point. I'm merely observing that putting SMN back into a position of dominance is in fact going to shaft RDM yet again. It would be a lot easier if they would just take Verraise off of dual cast. If we're ignoring job complexity as a factor, then why not let them have roughly equal DPS and similar Raise access?

Honestly, I agree with you with that. I always believed rdm and smn should be almost equal in damage. Even now Im not asking for a huge dps buff to put us far ahead of rdm. I just want some slight adjustments so it doesnt feel like Im sandbagging my static for going as a smn. Right now I have no other opinion for a dps. We have two melees (rpr and nin), we have a mch and a 9th member who is the raid leaders brother who playing rdm. On nights where the mch cant come we be using the rdm so Im either have to stay smn, switch to blm, or switch to a phy range. I personally suck as blm and dont like the job at savage level of play, I dont care for most phy range outside dnc who is also having problems. Smn is my only choice and it feels bad bc I know I'm going to be useless compared to the rdm.

[Madoka]

bc I know I'm going to be useless compared to the rdm.

The rDPS difference isn't that drastic. The mean difference is within 100 dps since the phoenix buff, and peak performance has RDM at about 300 dps more than SMN.
Both are above MCH in each metric, though the whole team will be losing that 1% buff if nobody swaps to a ranged dps.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

The rDPS different isn't that drastic. The mean difference is within 100 dps since the phoenix buff, and peak performance has RDM at about 300 dps more than SMN.
Both are above MCH in each metric, though the whole team will be losing that 1% buff if nobody swaps to a ranged dps.

Its more of a personal thing than a team thing. They told me I could go rpr and have 2 rprs. Im not going to do that to the team bc I know it'll just make clearing harder and slower. I personally want to tribute as much as possible I can bc Im a good teammate and not selfish. I really really wanted to raid as a rpr this expac bc I love the job and the rotation as much I love smn but since someone called it months before EW came out I decided to step down and continue as smn. I just don't want to feel like I'm sandbagging the team by play an inferior caster. I want both rdm and smn to be valid in raiding but the only way we can do that is to either remove the rez from casters or nerf it, or slight rise smn dam so it can compete in prog and faster clears.

[Katie_Kitty]

It's easy for Summoner mains to say that they're too weak, but if they make SMN more powerful than RDM, there's no reason to bring a Red Mage. We saw this happen for virtually all of RDM's existence in this game. Personally, I'm tired of "ha ha rez mage" third wheel caster jokes and stuff.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

It's easy for Summoner mains to say that they're too weak, but if they make SMN more powerful than RDM, there's no reason to bring a Red Mage. We saw this happen for virtually all of RDM's existence in this game. Personally, I'm tired of "ha ha rez mage" third wheel caster jokes and stuff.

I tell you like told the other bias rdm here. At least in SB and ShB, you had a place in prog. Right now smn doesn't even have that! So stop acting like a victim when the "ha ha rez mage" was a community problem not a balance problem. I ask you the same question I asked Absimiliard: "What benefit does it bring a party to being a smn over a rdm in EW?" In SB and ShB you at least could say "Well during prog rdm is better bc it can rez pretty much a whole time" Smn in EW cant even say that. I would love to be a prog caster right now. I would love to have the utility that rdm has right now. Rdm are having their cake and eating it too. Stop being bias and think how smn mains feel right now. We never asked rdm to be in a state where they would be denied from parties at anytime.

[Katie_Kitty]

I tell you like told the other bias rdm here. At least in SB and ShB, you had a place in prog. Right now smn doesn't even have that! So stop acting like a victim when the "ha ha rez mage" was a community problem not a balance problem. I ask you the same question I asked Absimiliard: "What benefit does it bring a party to being a smn over a rdm in EW?" In SB and ShB you at least could say "Well during prog rdm is better bc it can rez pretty much a whole time" Smn in EW cant even say that. I would love to be a prog caster right now. I would love to have the utility that rdm has right now. Rdm are having their cake and eating it too. Stop being bias and think how smn mains feel right now. We never asked rdm to be in a state where they would be denied from parties at anytime.

It's not bias, it's reality. RDM has been the red-headed stepchild of casters since day 1 and that has never changed until right now. Even when Summoner was bad, it was still better than Red Mage. Sorry you don't get to be the undisputed king of casters for yet another expansion, but I don't personally feel bad for you over it.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

It's not bias, it's reality. RDM has been the red-headed stepchild of casters since day 1 and that has never changed until right now. Even when Summoner was bad, it was still better than Red Mage. Sorry you don't get to be the undisputed king of casters for yet another expansion, but I don't personally feel bad for you over it.

You so are bias and petty. Cute miqo with a nasty personality. I never asked to be king of casters. I play smn bc I love smn in other ff games like Yuna and Rydia, not because it was "king of the caster" as you put it. I also like rdm and never asked rdm to be the red stepchild as you put it, you nasty person. You are very much bias and you seem like you want smn to be completely deleted from the game altogether. Also you never answer my question "Why should a party bring a smn over rdm?" Since you are biased and clearly hate smns your anwers mostly be "Haha smn sucks! Rdm rule! f smn" You a poor sad little person and I feel sorry for you.

[Katie_Kitty]

You so are bias and petty. Cute kitty with a nasty personality. I never asked to be king of casters. I play smn bc I love smn in other ff games like Yuna and Rydia, not because it was "king of the caster" as you put it. I also like rdm and never asked rdm to be the red stepchild as you put it, you nasty person. You are very much bias and you seem like you want smn to be completely deleted from the game altogether. Also you never answer my question "Why should a party bring a smn over rdm?" Since you are biased and clearly hate smns your anwers mostly be "Haha smn sucks! Rdm rule! f smn" You a poor sad little person and I feel sorry for you.

Just because my perspective differs from your own doesn't mean I have a nasty personality. The truth is that Summoner has enjoyed a privileged position in the meta for a long time. Even when RDM came in its damage could not compare and so Summoner maintained its status as the best caster. Even when BLM was clearly a superior damage-dealer, SMN remained a lock for raid spots purely because of its raise and its higher-than-RDM damage.

So, for one patch, for part of one raid tier, Summoner is not the single best caster. Sorry, I guess? It happens. It happened to Red Mages for a long time. I don't have much sympathy because for once people don't treat my favorite job with disdain and personally I appreciate that. Oh well.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

Just because my perspective differs from your own doesn't mean I have a nasty personality. The truth is that Summoner has enjoyed a privileged position in the meta for a long time. Even when RDM came in its damage could not compare and so Summoner maintained its status as the best caster. Even when BLM was clearly a superior damage-dealer, SMN remained a lock for raid spots purely because of its raise and its higher-than-RDM damage.

So, for one patch, for part of one raid tier, Summoner is not the single best caster. Sorry, I guess? It happens. It happened to Red Mages for a long time. I don't have much sympathy because for once people don't treat my favorite job with disdain and personally I appreciate that. Oh well.

I said that because how you put it. I feel you personally attacking me for enjoying smn and want my fav job to be deleted or be removed from raiding. I never felt that way for rdm but tbh after talking to you and the other rdm on here my opinion on rbm mains is slowly changing for the worst. You and the other rdm act like everyone treated rdm so so badly but I have never seen that myself. I saw rdm being used in prog and other things in both SB and ShB. I also never wished for rdm to be bad. I always wanted smn and rdm to be good and be pretty much the same. Either way, I really dont want to have anything to do with you at all now. Im glad you taking enjoying of others' misery. I still say you are very petty and bais to this issue. "Well, it happened to me so it's your turn now" is not a good attitude at all. "Well I was poor once so now it your time to be poor" You sound like that. You sound like someone how came into money and forgot where you came from and now look down at others who are in the same pos that you were.

With that Im done with this thread because Im tired of the bias rdms coming in here and attacking us for wanting to be on equal grounding with them. The power and idea of being better has gone to most of the rdm's on this thread heads and their egos are too much for me now. To @Aikaal thank you for making this thread and the constructive suggestions. I hope the dev looks past these biased petty rdm comments and helps smn be relevant in the raiding scene without making rdm irrelevant. Even tho I had some bad experiences with rdms in this thread I still don't want them to feel the same way as smn feels now. I want both jobs to be relevant and used in raiding unlike those who are in this thread who want the opposite for smn. Have a wonderful rest of your day.