Skill Point distribution [dev1021]

[yukikaze_yanagi]

No man, you're speaking of nonsense. The change in the animation didn't bring any problem in the sp gain since was almost random.
Do you remember the gladiators having shield skill almost null, because they were forced to attack to exp (and for a way less amount of others DoW, since their attack are weak) ? How this is qualified as a problem on attack speed ?
Do you remember the healing race ? The first healing getting huge exp, and the second..nothing ? This too isn't related to animation speed.
And for the DDs, was a race to do more skills you can before the mob die, with good pace of strategy

[ESAR]

No man, you're speaking of nonsense. The change in the animation didn't bring any problem in the sp gain since was almost random.
Do you remember the gladiators having shield skill almost null, because they were forced to attack to exp (and for a way less amount of others DoW, since their attack are weak) ? How this is qualified as a problem on attack speed ?
Do you remember the healing race ? The first healing getting huge exp, and the second..nothing ? This too isn't related to animation speed.
And for the DDs, was a race to do more skills you can before the mob die, with good pace of strategy

Not the animation, the actual speed of attack.

It's like this, they had battle and everything related to it, the actions, SP and the animations all set on this really slow battle style.
Everyone complained, they were already prepared for it so they implemented the new battle style.
The problem is they based the game around the slowerpaced battle style, not this new quick paced one.
This causes the problem of having to rebalance everything:
Enemies,
SP,
Animations,
Actions...

I'm sure i'm missing stuff that could fit in that list but this is just what I see off hand.

What I'm saying isn't nonsense, it's an educated guess. I don't work for square so I don't know for sure,but if I had to guess, it would be that the change in attack speed was more then they could handle in the small amount of time they gave themselves to fix this change wasn't anywhere near enough.

Why do you think we're having so many problems with battle and targeting?

To me it seems like the thrown together battle didn't take enough consideration into targeting.
They're going to fix this all, it just takes a little time.

Regardless the SP system is a good idea and works.

It seems however I never considered shield into this SP mix. but it could be done just the same, every block gets SP (some amount that's even with attacks, shield skills would also yield some (a fair amount) and it just gets thrown in as a party member.
Once shield is capped there is no need to give it more SP, therefore anyone using a shield that is capped wont take from the party pool.

I'm sure I can come up with something better then this for shield, but it's not that big a problem.

One idea could be to only have shield level individual to the player, not have it pooled with the party. Something like this could prevent complaints.

[Psytic]

The reason SP is so easy now is because they are just throwing it at us.
They're using behests to do that. Rather then fixing the system as they go, they decided it was best to nerf leveling until they can figure out a better solution.

Most of the reason I don't want to make it to 50 yet is because I like the climb so much, I find it the best part of the game. Regardless, it needs to be easy and interesting for players.

Right now that five minutes once an hour isn't very fun. Of course you can do Guildleves but some like to kill monsters on the field as well. Anyway, it takes a different type of strategy to kill each individual monster as a team.

Before they made the switch from action based to lump sum it was very rewarding and challenging to seek out new adversaries to fight for SP. There was alot of exploring involved, it was fun. If this current system stays, the game will never be like that, it's actually impossible for them to balance the game with the current type of SP distribution.

I know, you're not going to believe me about balance, but what do you imagine is balanced?
Balance would be this, all monsters at any given level give the same SP per hour, they only way to do that is if you pretty much relate SP to time spent in battle.
So basically if you fought threw 5 monsters in the time it would take to to fight one other you would make the same SP.
Obviously this is going to vary, but not by much.
If it takes you an extra few second to grab another monster, that's coming out of your SP gain, but that comes outta the current system just the same.

It basically comes down to this, do you want to be able to fight anything and the only way to increase SP is through increasing the difficulty of monsters or the strategy in which you kill them. Or would you rather this game end up like FFXI, only basically one monster gives you ideal SP for every level range, Also having only certain jobs wanted in the parties.

*Dunes*
Lizards in 9-11
Crabs 11-13
Gobs 13-16
Fish 16-18

*Qufim*
worms 18-20
Crabs 21-22
worms 21-23
fish 23-25

*Jungles*
25-27 mandy
27-29 gobs
llizards.

Anyway I could do this all day.

At 75 we hit Birds and they became the only thing we could level off of. Only specific jobs were wanted.
I know, jobs are very versatile so no one will be left out, but that means we also have to fight a specific way, just slaughter helpless enemies really fast.

If the system was changed back to action based, it would reopen their inital goal of allowing us to fight anything. This can only be good, there's nothing wrong with balance, it's what we wish we had but never did. Rather then being restricted in the way you fight, or what, we could do anything.
I've worked hard on this and that math has became near flawless, every time someone brings up something wrong with it, it's fairly easy to fix. I just have to manipulate the initial equation.
There's another huge added bonus to this type of SP system. They never have to adjust it. Because it is one formula, one equation and all the variables are linear, it's prepackaged to use flawlessly in any aspect of the game.

I don't just like saying this stuff because I like to hear myself talk, I really don't. This is tiring for me.
The thing is though I'm really good at math, I understand how complicated this current system is to balance, I understand their intent with the initial system (opening up anything as a target) and I used all this understanding to create a system that would be fair and fun and favour no class or no enemy.

It's really a step forward for an MMO. The balancing of SP has been completely removed.

If you have any questions I'm more then happy to answer them, but this system does everything I'm saying, I'm not making that up.

I was hoping Shadowtail would throw in his input, sounded like he new what this system could be.

So why don't they just do the ff 11 system? I don't see why its a big deal. They should scrap physical level too.

This time around you shouldn't worry about the ideal party setup because theres enough competition in the market now that Square will have to keep all classes balanced or desirable if they expect to keep subs.

Blizzard has successfully made about 3 or 4 zones people can lvl in and multiple classes that can heal, tank and dps in group effectively per level range right up to lvl 60 why cant square? I think people are letting them off the hook by suggesting an elaborate leveling system instead of asking for more content and better classes.