Skill Point distribution [dev1021]

[Betelgeuzah]

It doesn't. It won't.

[Linnear]

It doesn't. It won't.

I just want to make sure I understand you, you want them to reimplement an action based SP system, so you can SP off of every mob equally?

That won't work becasue HP levels of the different mob types varies, and the number of actions you do on each mob is different as a result. Also for classes like Glad and Thm who have two skill to level up will require to level each actions up seperatly. Even if this system of yours worked, which I doubt it would, it isn't fun, your rewarded more for preforming more abilities, then for killing mobs faster, or for using defensive abilities. You want to have a system that encourages people to play well and kill things faster/better, not to pinprick things to death for more SP.

[ESAR]

I just want to make sure I understand you, you want them to reimplement an action based SP system, so you can SP off of every mob equally?

That won't work becasue HP levels of the different mob types varies, and the number of actions you do on each mob is different as a result. Also for classes like Glad and Thm who have two skill to level up will require to level each actions up seperatly. Even if this system of yours worked, which I doubt it would, it isn't fun, your rewarded more for preforming more abilities, then for killing mobs faster, or for using defensive abilities. You want to have a system that encourages people to play well and kill things faster/better, not to pinprick things to death for more SP.

It is based on the number of actions used, therefore if it takes 5 actions to kill one mob and 15 to kill another, the one that awards 15 will give you approximatlely 3 times the SP. (this would ultimately vary on the attacks being used)

This is just the base of the system. Other bonuses can be added such as..
chain bonus (to reward people for killing faster)
Strategy bonuses (bounes to things like multi-target actions (excluding cures and buffs), attacks only)
Possibly a bonus to the effectiveness of an attack, full effectiveness 1.0X multiplier an attack half resisted .50 multiplier.
Also a bonus given for battle regimens and using attacks that a monster is weak to.

Party SP would be consolidated and split evenly at the end, to reward all players fairly.

[Kimahri]

I just want to make sure I understand you, you want them to reimplement an action based SP system, so you can SP off of every mob equally?

That won't work becasue HP levels of the different mob types varies, and the number of actions you do on each mob is different as a result. Also for classes like Glad and Thm who have two skill to level up will require to level each actions up seperatly. Even if this system of yours worked, which I doubt it would, it isn't fun, your rewarded more for preforming more abilities, then for killing mobs faster, or for using defensive abilities. You want to have a system that encourages people to play well and kill things faster/better, not to pinprick things to death for more SP.

This is true. The previous system was a great idea, but was implemented with carelessness. Seems to me they tried to take the Skill Level off of XI's skilling weapons & abilities tree and try to use it to level a class? Hell no. That's basically plagerism but you only cut out one part to add your own.

I've seen this same thread over and over, ESAR. You can keep this up until you're blue in the face, but they already changed it. I don't think they'll go back to it because you posted a long thread over it. Everybody in here has voted against you saying that the system failed and needed to be scrapped. EXP(SP) should always be decided on how difficult the enemy was to slay. Not how many times you were able to use a certain ability on it.

[ESAR]

Theres no way to properly balance the current system, it's impossible, it's not in the nature of the math.
There's a better way, if you don't see that or understand it I can't help you.
I'm trying to prevent the same problems that were present throughout the life of ffxi.
It seemed to me that this was their intention initially.
I only sought to reinvent it and make it fun and fair so there was no complaints.

Apparently though that doesn't matter, people just generally like to complain, even if they don't understand what they're complaining about. More power too you'll. But please if your gonna tell me it doesn't work, prove it with the math.
I don't care, use the current system in comparison. Maybe by familiarizing yourself with both you'll understand the differences.

[Viridiana]

Theres no way to properly balance the current system, it's impossible, it's not in the nature of the math.
There's a better way, if you don't see that or understand it I can't help you.
I'm trying to prevent the same problems that were present throughout the life of ffxi.
It seemed to me that this was their intention initially.
I only sought to reinvent it and make it fun and fair so there was no complaints.

Apparently though that doesn't matter, people just generally like to complain, even if they don't understand what they're complaining about. More power too you'll. But please if your gonna tell me it doesn't work, prove it with the math.
I don't care, use the current system in comparison. Maybe by familiarizing yourself with both you'll understand the differences.

. . .

But please if your gonna tell me it doesn't work, prove it with the math.

You keep saying it won't work, but I'm not seeing any math. I do love me some irony.

[ESAR]

. . .


You keep saying it won't work, but I'm not seeing any math. I do love me some irony.

I wish there was a way I could keep this thing buried when I responded but it just doesn't work like that.
In the same sense that I wish the current system could be balanced, though it just doesn't work like that.

Let's see why the current system is unbalanced. I'm sure I've mentioned this all before but wth, i'll stab at it.

First, Behests are overpowering.
I make about 5 times the SP in five minutes of behest that I could in an hour of solo. (How's that balanced?)

Second, I can fight a monster for 30 seconds and it could give me 200SP.
I can fight that same monster with a buddy my level, kill it in half the time and still get 200SP. (How's that balanced)

Third, there are very few monsters that reward good SP as you level. these are monster with low HP and DEF. We rate this on a scale of SP/H. (lack of variety in targets, YAY!!!) It's what you all want right? must be.

Fourth. It's too hard to deal with exploits in the current system, that's why we'll have that bland feeling of leveling off the same mobs with the exact same party set ups, where certain types of classes will be unnecessary or unneeded. FFXI ToAU all over again! but that's what you want right! lol to fight those birds (or in this game coblyn/ raptors)

The real reason.
It's the way that SP is calculated, having SP be the exact same if you kill a mob of the same level every time causes this unbalance. It's impossible to get anything near balanced. (well I'm sure they could get close, but it would take a fair amount of effort, something they don't have time for. But even if they did put in all this effort, it's meaningless against the exploits. To deal with exploits they'll either nerf the SP so you wont level off them or they'll leave the SP and you'll only SP of them.)

Action based SP was the way to go, though the initial execution had problems.

What action based SP does is...

Balances every target (well close to balanced, some targets will fall a little shy of max SP (like 90%), but not by much. I'll used moles as an example because they can't be hit while under ground. There are ways they can rebalanced this though.)

Allows any party set up or strategy used to kill a target.

Prevents exploits, further balancing SP (with my system, not the original)

Honestly, Action based SP is the way to go, though it must be awarded every hit, not proc every so many hits if it's to be successful.

Also, in a party, SP needs to be pooled and split evenly as well if this is to be successful.

Hope that helps.

It will balanced the game and open up a about 90% of the targets as ideal to level off of, it's the idea they had originally.

Not to mention that last 10% of targets will give about 90% of the SP that the majority would meaning they wouldn't really be bad targets to level off of either.

Right now (with the current system) it's less then 10% of targets that are ideal to level off.

[Physic]

In all honesty, the dude is actually correct on many accounts,

In reality i doubt it will go back, they already placed this framework, basically saying they give up on the old system.

The truth is the old system worked very well with the rest of the game, the mob design and many other factors. It had some big problems though. But these werent flaws with the system itself, but with some of the execution.

Many people disliked the randomness, they should have eliminated this element, they should have had a base exp gain amount, or given you a little for every action.
having something proc say 1/4th the time meant that in short fights you could get screwed.
Most people didnt understand the system.


Problems that some people have said in this thread are not real problems with the SP system as it was. For example, the idea that your best exp comes from spamming actions is incorrect, you get sp for doing dmg, applying and effect, or for shields, from damage blocked. So, the biggest exploits were mages wanting a lot of people to get damaged, or possibly by trying to put massive debuffs on the mob, but debuffs generally help you kill mobs, also because the amount you get per mob is capped, your goal in general is not to actually hit cap, hitting cap repeatedly means you wasted your time, you be better off killing faster.

basically the enemies you fight were built with the whole system in mind, and allows you to have complex enemies, who are still worth it to fight. In a static system, any monster that can heal itself sucks, monsters with strong dmg abilities suck. Under the old system, people didnt mind monsters healing themselves, more opportunities to hit the cap, mages loved big dmg monsters because they could get more from heals. Fighting a lot of small mobs fast was as worthwhile as fighting large mobs. You could really adapt to many party sizes.
Early on it seemed wierd, but once you understood the system, you began to see, you could fight almost anything if your set up countered the monsters abilities well. You could chain mobs for hours, or you could kill big giant mobs in large groups.

he is right, with the current system the only way to make it worthwhile to fight any mob, is to carefully adjust each monsters sp given with how difficult it is to kill.
If you just go by defense and hp, any monster with a cure is not worthwhile, any monster with a big dmg attack isnt worthwhile, any mob with buffs isnt worthwhile, any mob that applies debuffs isnt worthwhile. (as compared to a mob with similar hp and defense). There is no advantage to holding mobs and doing more actions to them, because you could be attacking a different mob, also your more likely for more people to hit the cap. it was a better system that needed tweaks.
Part of the reason the combat seems stale now, is not because the combat doesnt have the tools, its that people arent fighting mobs that have interesting abilities you have to deal with, because there is no reward.

honestly fixed exp is fail, unless monsters with the same exp are of the same difficulty