Stowaways in High-End Content?

[AriesDaBeeh]

I understand the point of the "Duty-Complete" Gatekeep filter to ensure after completing a piece of content you would only be paired up with players who also completed it for optimal performance.

But I ask in sense of the fact that high end content such as savages where progressing through mechanics alone is something to be milestones that we have a sort of "Half-Completion" Filter or something similar that party leaders can filter through players with.

I ask this because while people who completed the content are protected from players who sneak into their party with limited understanding of the fight or simply don't care. Anyone short of their completion does not. Savage is not like other bits of content where one can learn and plow through within a couple of minutes so party finders are organized at set progression points of boss mechanics. But that is simply a spoken rule to be respected. Anyone can enter any duty incomplete party with no experience and ruin it. And people do.

What do you guys think of this?

[Stepjam]

I dunno if the game could really keep track of prog checkpoints in a fight.

[ItMe]

Considering even in Savage people not carrying their weight can get a full on clear, allowing "stowaways" into farm parties... I'm not sure the system you propose would have too much of an impact.

[ArchlordPie]

How do you even define progression points? Like, let's take P2S for example. There's a mechanic that most people are referring to as "Limit Cut" (which isn't its actual name, thanks PF...) that tends to be the biggest wall in the fight. How do you define whether or not someone's progressed past Limit Cut?

Have you progressed past Limit Cut if you're a PLD who popped Hallowed Ground and stood off to the side while the entire rest of the party ran around like headless chickens and got deleted?

Have you progressed past Limit Cut if most of the party died to it but there was a SMN still up who raised a healer who LB3'd and the party made it to enrage on that pull?

Likewise, have you not progressed past Limit Cut if you were slightly out of position and got clipped by something and killed while the rest of the party survived because all 8 people involved know the strat and were (roughly) in the right spots?

Progression is a very vague concept. We want it to mean "I understand every mechanic prior to X point in the fight and am capable of consistently executing all of them correctly." But there isn't really a way to define that in terms the game would understand without introducing other room for error. Even "first death = that's the prog point for the whole party" fails when someone derps on an early mechanic and the party hits enrage with only that death, because the party most certainly has progressed past that early mechanic.

I can tell you from experience that PF Hell is a real place and it sucks, and I definitely agree with you that having some better way to filter people than just listing your prog point in the description and praying you get 7 people at or after that point would be a massive help, but I just don't see it being feasible.

[JamieRose]

I don't think that will matter. People in PF will kill the party rather than suffer someone who is still having trouble with mechs, regardless of whether they have cleared or not.

That's just how screwed up PF is. They should rename it to Toxic Finder.

[iVolke]

I don't think that will matter. People in PF will kill the party rather than suffer someone who is still having trouble with mechs, regardless of whether they have cleared or not.

That's just how screwed up PF is. They should rename it to Toxic Finder.

???

If you're joining clear/farm parties when you don't have an understanding of the whole fight, regardless if you've cleared or not, people have the right to be annoyed with you.

You should be joining learning parties and even then, I rarely see anyone get roasted in those, since they're learning parties.

What are you considering "toxicity"? Because the strict ToS allows for none of that in chat. "Toxic Finder" comes off as overdramatic. The most toxic you can get in this game is passive-aggressiveness, yet even that somehow manages to make some people break down...

I wish I could see some of you 25 seconds in a Black Ops 1 lobby where everyone is mic'd up. For science.

[JamieRose]

???

If you're joining clear/farm parties when you don't have an understanding of the whole fight, regardless if you've cleared or not, people have the right to be annoyed with you.

You should be joining learning parties and even then, I rarely see anyone get roasted in those, since they're learning parties.

What are you considering "toxicity"? Because the strict ToS allows for none of that in chat. "Toxic Finder" comes off as overdramatic. The most toxic you can get in this game is passive-aggressiveness, yet even that somehow manages to make some people break down...

I wish I could see some of you 25 seconds in a Black Ops 1 lobby where everyone is mic'd up. For science.

I got dragged into PUBG, close enough. It still doesn't make people cursing me out any less toxic because they aren't dropping N-Bombs.

[iVolke]

I got dragged into PUBG, close enough. It still doesn't make people cursing me out any less toxic because they aren't dropping N-Bombs.

I don't believe you that you're getting cursed out in this game, honestly. ToS is too strict, so you could easily report them. Most people don't risk their accounts like that. How many posts in the "Horror stories from DF" threads are people getting randomly cursed out? Stop exaggerating.

There's no way you're getting cursed out in every single PF. If you are, then let's consider the common denominator.

I'm not saying there isn't toxicity. I'm saying that it doesn't take the usual form of blatant insults like in other games.

[JamieRose]

I don't believe you that you're getting cursed out in this game, honestly. ToS is too strict, so you could easily report them. Most people don't risk their accounts like that. How many posts in the "Horror stories from DF" threads are people getting randomly cursed out? Stop exaggerating.

There's no way you're getting cursed out in every single PF. If you are, then let's consider the common denominator.

I'm not saying there isn't toxicity. I'm saying that it doesn't take the usual form of blatant insults like in other games.

Another case of "It never happened to me, so it must have never happened to you."

Sometimes I wonder why I even bother...

[AriesDaBeeh]

I dunno if the game could really keep track of prog checkpoints in a fight.

I would like to suggest maybe a % track on individual progress. Or perhaps having more fights into checkpoints like doorbosses on the last savage fights you could have a option to set it to people who have made it to that checkpoint.
Perhaps if duty complete is checked by the achievement have a "Half way there" achievement you get for wiping past 50% or higher.

Its scrappy.. Its slapdash but its honestly better then what we have going here. Not everyone has statics or a group of friends to consistently work with. Square is out of touch if they think everyone does. And with third party illegal software like ACT running the scene on most statics, finding such groups is harder then it should be.