The real reason DRK players are upset

[MagiusNecros]

Pretty sure Oblation is meant to be used with other Defensive CDs as well as TBN to mirror the effect that the other 3 Tank 25s CDs are but instead of them having their additional mitigation for 4s the DRK's is 10s.

Oblation feels like it should be on TBN.

Blood Weapon needs to be on a stack system given the weaponskill/spell problem.

Living Dead needs a rework. Take a hit give 10 second invuln and just autoheal 25% of our HP after it expires. Remove the Healer Drain.

A little gray icon isn't a good indicator on topping off the DRK. A 70k heal over 10s is a hard task when you say have a Sage.

The other invulns don't have 70k+ heal requirement.

Make TBN better by making it free and put it on a 25s recast. Remove Dark Arts. You want Dark Arts put it somewhere else.

Keep MP spenders relegated to Dark Side attacks. Spend MP for Blood and spend Blood for MP.

This whole 15s burst and 45s feelsbadman isn't fun design.

I'm sure it's fun for some players but I don't think the majority.

Really don't care what they do but the job has problems. Problems I feel were made to be there on purpose.

GNB being 2% behind DRK in DPS ironically should make people want to pick up the GNB instead because unlike DRK they actually have good defensives.

If they want a counter attack Tank then use TBN shield break and give us a skill that specifically does huge damage because of it.

I would expect no less then 1200 potency or higher if that's what they want.

[AC9Breaker]

Plenty of other people here make the case for it. I dont have to. I just throw my support. Plus i'm not taking homework from anybody on this board to explain something. If you can't see it, or dont feel it that's fine but I don't ever feel the need to explain cause 95% of criticism the job gets from people on these boards are basically players who wish they had something from another tanks toolkit, or wish DRK is played the way they have it in their head. The only real criticism I have is for oblation as I feel its lacking impact. But like others say I feel like its always meant to be paired with another CD. I still wouldn't mind if it was reworked somehow but I'm not gonna be up in arms if it always stays the same.

[OdinelStarrei]

Plenty of other people here make the case for it. I dont have to. I just throw my support. Plus i'm not taking homework from anybody on this board to explain something. If you can't see it, or dont feel it that's fine but I don't ever feel the need to explain cause 95% of criticism the job gets from people on these boards are basically players who wish they had something from another tanks toolkit, or wish DRK is played the way they have it in their head. The only real criticism I have is for oblation as I feel its lacking impact. But like others say I feel like its always meant to be paired with another CD. I still wouldn't mind if it was reworked somehow but I'm not gonna be up in arms if it always stays the same.

You're not exactly wrong, but you're certainly not right. These people who are throwing out rework idea after rework idea, or say that DRK is impossible to heal or something are off base. I can agree with that. The people who keep asking for HW/SB DRK back are asking for things that will never happen. I can agree with that. But some of those complaints are not just white noise, they're explicit signals that something is wrong from a design perspective without me having to bring out logs.

There is no reason for Blood Weapon to be the way that it is. I will die on this hill.

There is no reason for Unmend, Unleash and Stalwart Soul to be Spells and not Weaponskills. SkS should not be a dead stat for 2/3rds of an AoE rotation when it's required for 5 hit BW.

There is no reason for Oblation to be only 10%/10 sec duration. Some aspect of it should be buffed here, since the effect of using it, or combining it with other CDs is too weak for the cooldown it has.

There is no reason for why Dark Missionary and Stalwart Soul can't be used in Level 70 Ultimates if GNB can use Heart of Light and Fated Circle.

There is no reason for Living Dead to have the properties that it does if every other invuln has the same duration. It was arguable before EW, it is now indefensible.

I do not want a 4th version of DRK to split people even further. I want to keep and expand on this version, and to be tuned with QoL to make the experience more tolerable/forgiving to high latency, and parity with other tanks. NOT by copying the skills or bringing back Scourge and haste up or whatever else people spend four hours typing up, just FIXING what they have already developed.

Is that not reasonable? People are being hyperbolic, I understand, but this job is not "fine." It's functional, but we deserve better.

[AC9Breaker]

You're not exactly wrong, but you're certainly not right. These people who are throwing out rework idea after rework idea, or say that DRK is impossible to heal or something are off base. I can agree with that. The people who keep asking for HW/SB DRK back are asking for things that will never happen. I can agree with that. But some of those complaints are not just white noise, they're explicit signals that something is wrong from a design perspective without me having to bring out logs.

There is no reason for Blood Weapon to be the way that it is. I will die on this hill.

There is no reason for Unmend, Unleash and Stalwart Soul to be Spells and not Weaponskills. SkS should not be a dead stat for 2/3rds of an AoE rotation when it's required for 5 hit BW.

There is no reason for Oblation to be only 10%/10 sec duration. Some aspect of it should be buffed here, since the effect of using it, or combining it with other CDs is too weak for the cooldown it has.

There is no reason for why Dark Missionary and Stalwart Soul can't be used in Level 70 Ultimates if GNB can use Heart of Light and Fated Circle.

There is no reason for Living Dead to have the properties that it does if every other invuln has the same duration. It was arguable before EW, it is now indefensible.

I do not want a 4th version of DRK to split people even further. I want to keep and expand on this version, and to be tuned with QoL to make the experience more tolerable/forgiving to high latency, and parity with other tanks. NOT by copying the skills or bringing back Scourge and haste up or whatever else people spend four hours typing up, just FIXING what they have already developed.

Is that not reasonable? People are being hyperbolic, I understand, but this job is not "fine." It's functional, but we deserve better.

lmao wow, these are actually good complaints that belong in the 5 percent with one which I agree is a valid issue the others not so much.

I will never discuss Living Dead with anyone random on the internet cause at this point its pretty much like debating Pro Life or Pro choice. Neither side will budge. The flavor of this skill is too good I dont care how inferior it is to the other invulns.

Sad thing is tho, most people complaining about DRK probably don't even get the nuances to to the issues you've brought up. I still think you're being glib with it Just being functional tho.

[Satarn]

Sad thing is tho, most people complaining about DRK probably don't even get the nuances to to the issues you've brought up..

Pretty sure just about everyone is aware of these issues and understands them. You're not some woke DRK expert who sees "the real deal" for agreeing with it. Honestly, most of these have even been discussed to death on these very forums.

A lot of people just don't even bother mentioning it, because they see asking to fix those as missing the forest for the trees. Yes, devs could pretty easily fix those issues to make the job less clunky, but the kit would still remain disjointed and lacking in identity, not to mention no longer catering to the niche which has drawn people to DRK in the first place.
On the other hand, if the whole job got reworked again, then those problems would likely stop existing(even if replaced with other ones), so if somebody's goal is to provoke a massive shift in DRK's gameplay, then fixing all the technical jank in the current version is pointless.

[Sazuzaki]

lmao wow, these are actually good complaints that belong in the 5 percent with one which I agree is a valid issue the others not so much.

I will never discuss Living Dead with anyone random on the internet cause at this point its pretty much like debating Pro Life or Pro choice. Neither side will budge. The flavor of this skill is too good I dont care how inferior it is to the other invulns.

Sad thing is tho, most people complaining about DRK probably don't even get the nuances to to the issues you've brought up. I still think you're being glib with it Just being functional tho.

Everything mentioned from their message has been and is still being talked about on here...

Anyways, Living Dead is still badly designed. Maybe if it gave all attacks 100% lifesteal or stopped you from taking ALL damage when in Walking Dead like HG, it might actually be a good skill without taking away flavor. But what flavor is even left of this job from a gameplay perspective? TBN maybe, but having a job based around ONLY off globals kinda sucks ngl. Honestly, I would be content if we just had another GCD to alternate between, or mini burst phases if BW was only on a 30 second CD.

I mean, I'm glad to see you're enjoying the class at the very least. Hopefully they can please both player types in a future rework and stop the lazy BS.

[Ryaduera]

There is no reason for Oblation to be only 10%/10 sec duration. Some aspect of it should be buffed here, since the effect of using it, or combining it with other CDs is too weak for the cooldown it has.

The thing about the 10% mitigations for all other tanks is that they come with something else. GNB gets a parry rate, PLD gets to make it stronger by using other mitigation tools, and WAR has healing attached to theirs. (not a perfect comparison because I'm using the 10% reduction skills and not the mitigation skills that can be used on others) The only reason to give it only 10% with nothing else but a charge system is for either stacking it with TBN, or extending the duration at the cost of your second charge and a 40s downtime. It's obviously designed to be used with TBN so I wouldn't even oppose giving it an additional effect that only works while a target is under the effect of TBN. Either make the fact you're desigining a job around a single action interesting, or don't design it around that action at all.

There is no reason for why Dark Missionary and Stalwart Soul can't be used in Level 70 Ultimates if GNB can use Heart of Light and Fated Circle.

Yes. A thousand times, yes. If you want to geive them a party-wide mitigation later that's fine, but making it later and completely identical to one another tank has is just insulting.

Nothing else to say about the rest of what you said as I generally agree.

[battleshadow66]

As long as the job keeps clinging on to TBN as its main identity, the job will always be awful. IMO, that is 100% the culprit. It keeps being pasted around as be "too good", but now the other tanks have caught up, so it is no longer that.

[Shin96]

Think people are getting too much into this guy's opinion. It's his opinion leave it at that.

Alot of us are unhappy because we choose our favourite job based on our preferences. DRK has been heavily screwed over for 3 expansions now. No one is making up anything inside their head.

There's a clear reference we have and it's 3.0 DRK. No job as far as I am concerned, has been dealt with so poorly than DRK for years. The developers have literally no excuse as to why they've been consistently ignoring the pleas and requests of loyal players maining this job since its inception. The irony in this is, since 6.0 people have been asking for simple fixes and not even this is taken seriously. That's how utterly low our standards have become.

Such a crime to ask the developers they take responsibility for ruining a beloved job repeatedly. We've said enough. If they need inspiration it's all here. The playerbase shouldn't have to factor in the design process. It's their job.

Suffice it to say, their ignorance will lead towards the exclusion of DRK players in the long run. If they want to rework this job a second time.. it's on them. If feedback truly mattered; we wouldn't be here.

[Danelo]

You're not exactly wrong, but you're certainly not right. These people who are throwing out rework idea after rework idea, or say that DRK is impossible to heal or something are off base. I can agree with that. The people who keep asking for HW/SB DRK back are asking for things that will never happen. I can agree with that. But some of those complaints are not just white noise, they're explicit signals that something is wrong from a design perspective without me having to bring out logs.

There is no reason for Blood Weapon to be the way that it is. I will die on this hill.

There is no reason for Unleash and Stalwart to be Spells and not Weaponskills. SkS should not be a dead stat for 2/3rds of an AoE rotation when it's required for 5 hit BW.

There is no reason for Oblation to be only 10%/10 sec duration. Some aspect of it should be buffed here, since the effect of using it, or combining it with other CDs is too weak for the cooldown it has.

There is no reason for why Dark Missionary and Stalwart Soul can't be used in Level 70 Ultimates if GNB can use Heart of Light and Fated Circle.

There is no reason for Living Dead to have the properties that it does if every other invuln has the same duration. It was arguable before EW, it is now indefensible.

I do not want a 4th version of DRK to split people even further. I want to keep and expand on this version, and to be tuned with QoL to make the experience more tolerable/forgiving to high latency, and parity with other tanks. NOT by copying the skills or bringing back Scourge and haste up or whatever else people spend four hours typing up, just FIXING what they have already developed.

Is that not reasonable? People are being hyperbolic, I understand, but this job is not "fine." It's functional, but we deserve better.

I don’t necessarily disagree with much you said here but 5.x felt bare bones, to me, especially with all the issues you mentioned. I was hopeful for 6.x bcs 5.x was a decent foundation although it didn’t tickle my fancy by itself. They didn’t fix the issues. They built upon a skill that everyone thought would be pruned bcs it’s been nerfed beyond belief; salt and darkness just doesn’t seem like it was worth waiting two (in my case 4) years for. Shadowbringer looks cool but they added it back via new graphic that’s less useful than they original. They added ogcds just to link two ogcds bcs DRKs opener is too cluttered? Don’t get me started on the traits… what a waste. I’m starting to think differently about how cool the shadow is bcs the devs seem to pour potency into it rather meaningful gameplay (obviously a person feeling but it seems fair) - it’s not even a dot you have to maintain uptime on.

DRK seems like it was a complete afterthought and that’s before you compare it to what the other tanks got this go around.