Dungeon design is just so boring and formulaic [Spoilers]

[Lunalepsy]

[[Spoilers ahead]]

I'll start off by saying that the expansion is great, compelling story, annoying characters and the whole cheesy "power of friendship" at the end of the expansion was cheesy. It would have been better if all the scions had been killed off at the end.

However, the dungeons this expansion have been so boring. Its just 2 trash waves then boss, every time. Some of the bosses do have interesting mechanics and the Endwalker dungeons do feel harder but doable if you know what you are doing but...

There is no exploration in these dungeons, they don't feel epic and remind me of Final Fantasy XIII a little too much, an endless hallway with very little variation. Visually some of them are stunning and its a shame they are so formulaic.

I think one of the ways to remedy this is to make dungeons different lengths, have 4 or 5 bosses or have them with optional bosses. This game does easily beat out WoW but the reason WoW did so well was the compelling dungeon design, with different numbers of bosses and call optional bosses. (Some of my favorite dungeons were Deadmines, Mauroden etc) because they may have been longer and sub-optimal but it didn't feel like game designers created it, it felt lived in, like REAL hideouts and caves.

I think the Japanese trope of "optimal" gameplay (something that is common to a lot of asian MMO's) is actually crippling the creativity a bit. Sure, some dungeons don't work in wow (I.E. Halls of Reflection) but it was still an interesting concept that expanded on the lore in new ways and tested out new mechanics.

I love this game, it beats WoW on everything, just not dungeon design.

Welcome to modern MMOs.

[Velnora]

It's an area filled with monsters, patrols, and loot. The goal is to progress deeper into the dungeon (Or I guess up to a higher floor if it's HoH) and beat the boss at the end of every 10th floor while gradually gaining levels (Or really just upgrading your weapon/armor). It's the closest to a dungeon you'll get in this game

It's an area with preset "gear". With the only meaningful rewards being at the end, which require a stupid amount of time to get to.

[OtakuSempai]

...sheesh, all that negativity as soon as someone mentions Mythic+ dungeons, even if the implementation of them was kinda dumb (degrading mythic+ keys as you wipe is kind of a turn-off). It doesn't need to be a carbon copy of Mythic+, but having harder content in general never hurts and the more exists, the more people may consider giving it a shot. Savage is great and all, but an occasional hard dungeon, not just by name but also by actual dfficulty, or alternative higher difficulty content would really nice to have.

Or are we really content with staying in our current cycle of dungeons never offering an actual challenge and we instead have to rely on Savage and a lesser degree Extreme?

I also raise the point that more high-difficulty content that would force players to get better would benefit the playerbase as a whole - I may not speak for all, but definitely for many about those who rolled their eyes at people they see in duty finder and think "what the hell is this guy doing?".

So, yes please, more harder difficulty dungeons / content.

You mention any one thing from WoW here and some people's brains shut off and will refuse to have any meaningful discussion.

The dungeons in FF14 are formulaic and uninspired in my opinion, especially now that trusts have been added which even further pigeon holes the devs into designing them a certain way.

One suggestion I have is to make the optional dungeons unlocked after msq that are required for expert roulette, truly challenging with interesting mechanics. Optional bosses, dynamic layout, puzzles, etc. Also trash mobs that require the use of your role skills to CC and interrupt.

Hell, maybe a whole new deep dungeon system with this design philosophy in mind geared towards small organized groups.

[Miles064]

Yeah that's the thing with requests like this. Say SE did put harder dungeons in with whatever challenging mechanics people ask for. But they don't add special new rewards. These so-called challenge seekers won't touch it. Because they don't really want challenge for challenge. They want something special just for them.

What's wrong with wanting something harder and getting something out of it? It could be glamors and tomes for all I care. I like dungeons with some bite to them. My only options for harder fights are trials and savage, which are arena fights not dungeons. The idea that people only want harder stuff to flex on others is crazy.

[Asari5]

i had a lot of fun in aions dungeons. you knew you are fu**ed if the add sound repeated itself several times because you pulled something at the wrong time. rooms full with adds. adds walking around. adds that would kill your whole group if you dont focus them or uf you dont put them to sleep. yeah gone or the good old times..... consumed a lot of time though

that being said i dont want mythic plus... but dungeons as they are now are too stale and boring. yes there is spmething in between our dungeons and mythic dungeons... a lot actually

[Escalon]

What's wrong with wanting something harder and getting something out of it? It could be glamors and tomes for all I care. I like dungeons with some bite to them. My only options for harder fights are trials and savage, which are arena fights not dungeons. The idea that people only want harder stuff to flex on others is crazy.

This, forever this.

Keep story dungeons easy, keep them brain dead, but give us OPTIONS to run something that requires more than 1 brain cell but not a dedicated static. Thats my biggest issue, there is no in-between, on a scale I would dare to say its like this (1 easiest - 6 hardest) = 1 (dungeons), 2 (Alliance raids/raids), 3 (nothing), 4(nothing), 5 (savages) 6 (Ultimate).

If you dont have a dedicated static, you are literally stuck doing the most braindead things in this game, there is no middle ground. (and before you say, get a static, not everyone wants/can dedicate them self's to a static for 1-4 times a week for 3 hours)

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Devs are afraid to experiment so yeah

Every time they do, people get mad.
Bluemage as an Example.

[Krotoan]

If you dont have a dedicated static, you are literally stuck doing the most braindead things in this game, there is no middle ground. (and before you say, get a static, not everyone wants/can dedicate them self's to a static for 1-4 times a week for 3 hours)

Not.. been my experience in the past. I haven't run newer Savage/ultimate stuff.. but in the past I've been able to PF stuff.

it's probably not as optimal but It's gotten things done.

[Ryaz]

I'd have no problems with some optional harder dungeon modes. The designs of the boss fights are interesting and the areas are consistently beautiful, but dungeons definitely don't offer much in the way of challenge. I would prefer they don't give better gear, but instead maybe some cosmetic stuff and maybe help you cap your tomes faster.

They should NOT follow the formula of mythic+ though. One of the biggest complaints about WoW is how they punish you for failure pretty hard with the loss of your key and it just creates toxicity.

But it's funny, I remember all the complaining about places like Toto-Rak and and winding paths in the beginning. Funny how we've gone the other way.

I always thought it would be cool to add a branching system, so you get different paths each time you do the dungeon. You don't have all the pointless running of the earlier dungeons, but can get some variety out of them.

[Escalon]

Not.. been my experience in the past. I haven't run newer Savage/ultimate stuff.. but in the past I've been able to PF stuff.

it's probably not as optimal but It's gotten things done.

I could care less for things being optimal, but savages need way more coordination than anything else and mostly voice calls are a needed, lets not talk about ultimate, that's really only for like the top 1%-5%, but again, those are not the talking point, we are talking about dungeons that, and I bet a lot of people would enjoy something more than just Trash>Boss>Trash>Boss>Thrash>Boss with a total completion time of 15 mins.