Patch 6.05 Notes

**Rhais** · 01-05-2022 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by Kuroka

No because its also tailored for the better players then, so everyone not as good (not even bad) cant play remotely this bad. For example I really suck at healing but its fun every now and then, yet i can deal with most things... most "pro" healers complain its too boring while basically everyday i encounter so terrible healers that really try but just cant... it would hurt the game too much if all of those need to straight up quit their job and go dps or something... giving us even less healers (or tanks)

Imo the game should never be tuned after stuff thats mostly premade...

You are not talking about job balance at this point though.

**Duskane** · 01-05-2022 10:25 AM

Job balance sucks at the moment
don't defend it because you are a fotm meta main or just have no idea what you are talking about

**Velnora** · 01-05-2022 10:52 AM

Hybrid taxes are a dumb, archaic concept. Instead of deliberately lowering jobs damage, they should just give all dps some form of utility, and strive for equal damage.

**Floortank** · 01-05-2022 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Velnora

Hybrid taxes are a dumb, archaic concept. Instead of deliberately lowering jobs damage, they should just give all dps some form of utility, and strive for equal damage.

This is far too parser-centric in thought.

DRG has lower personal DPS than other certain other DPS because it adds some damage back in through buffs to the party. People should not focus solely on parse data but rather who clears and who doesn't.

**Deceptus** · 01-05-2022 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by Floortank

This is far too parser-centric in thought.

DRG has lower personal DPS than other certain other DPS because it adds some damage back in through buffs to the party. People should not focus solely on parse data but rather who clears and who doesn't.

More like people who like to play dancer want to contribute more to the group than just "making someone else hit harder".

THEY wand to be valuable, not make other people valuable.

**Shurrikhan** · 01-06-2022 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by Deceptus

More like people who like to play dancer want to contribute more to the group than just "making someone else hit harder".

THEY wand to be valuable, not make other people valuable.

Or at least for that aid to be more interesting than just shuffling what would be their own numbers to someone else...

Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

I already know that the average DPS sprout isn't going to recognize the utility of using different Iaijutsu instead of going for Midare all the time.

...I've yet to meet in-game a SAM who knew what LB, Sprint, and either among a "snapshot" or "donut" AoE were who didn't know to at least use Higan on bosses or Tenka in AoE. It's... quite basic stuff, and I don't see what relevance the "average DPS sprout" ought to have to ideal tuning. Why would we balance around, or constraint kits to, our bottom 20%?

**ArkenaeuxBelmont** · 01-05-2022 02:09 PM

Asking for jobs NOT to be balanced around the Savage tier makes no sense, because under that, in Dungeon/Normals/Alliance/Non-EX Trials, every job *can* and *does* do the job.

No one excludes certain jobs from that content because *every single job performs just fine*. The first rare exception to this is the current DRK, which is struggling in dungeons but not in raids. Dungeons ONLY.

Asking for all the jobs to be balanced around dungeon level content is asinine and completely counter productive to all your arguments of "X job is already hard". If the entire game/job balance was around dungeons, *you'd have to try even harder to perform in said dungeons to accomplish what you are doing now*.

How do people not understand this? Balancing around Savage makes the casual content for casuals *easier*. Not harder.

**Dewslam** · 01-05-2022 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by ArkenaeuxBelmont

How do people not understand this? Balancing around Savage makes the casual content for casuals *easier*. Not harder.

Maybe the game shouldn't be so easy I can auto-attack through most of it with the only mildly challenging content being extreme and savage, which demands you jump through considerably more hoops than anything else just to do. But also Savage demands a different playstyle than the rest of the game, so balancing for it means balancing for the players who optimize and play as close to perfect as they can.

I think current monk is probably the best example of this; once you get the hang of blitz, its timers and the gist of what you're supposed to do, it's not hard to use at all and performs above how it feels like it is. But a lot of people struggle with keeping monk's blitz cycles going and fall out of synch which makes the class feel sloppy and awkward. So rather than rewarding you for performing well, it feels like you have to perform well for the class to not feel like a mess.

Basically, I guess, I'm saying that by tuning specifically for end game content it makes the rest of the game feel like it doesn't matter at all which, in turn, has made it all feel pretty dull and rote in comparison.

**Shurrikhan** · 01-05-2022 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by Dewslam

...

Job balancing =/= content tuning, unless your only solution to job imbalance is power creep or reduction to the lowest bar.

Parity, in itself, does not make content harder, easier, or anything in between.

But also Savage demands a different playstyle than the rest of the game, so balancing for it means balancing for the players who optimize and play as close to perfect as they can.

You say that like it's a bad thing. That's literally what it means to balance kits and the actual available throughput, rather than to add handicap points based on average player performance gap. The mistakes and value of mistakes people are likely to make vary wildly; to compensate for them only creates yet another mess of imbalance the moment those couple parts more of a given job is mastered.

I think current monk is probably the best example of this; once you get the hang of blitz, its timers and the gist of what you're supposed to do, it's not hard to use at all and performs above how it feels like it is. But a lot of people struggle with keeping monk's blitz cycles going and fall out of synch which makes the class feel sloppy and awkward.

It makes the job feel sloppy... to those who haven't yet learned how to play it. That is not a bad thing. Having a kit to learn is, in itself, available gameplay -- enjoyable hours of progress to be made if simply cares to learn rather than throwing up their hands and demanding the job be balanced around their mistakes or that its floor be raised nearly to its ceiling. I would much rather struggle with a 'harder' job and actually learn it than for there to be no mechanic on said job really worth mastering.

**ArkenaeuxBelmont** · 01-05-2022 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by Dewslam

Maybe the game shouldn't be so easy I can auto-attack through most of it with the only mildly challenging content being extreme and savage, which demands you jump through considerably more hoops than anything else just to do. But also Savage demands a different playstyle than the rest of the game, so balancing for it means balancing for the players who optimize and play as close to perfect as they can.

I think current monk is probably the best example of this; once you get the hang of blitz, its timers and the gist of what you're supposed to do, it's not hard to use at all and performs above how it feels like it is. But a lot of people struggle with keeping monk's blitz cycles going and fall out of synch which makes the class feel sloppy and awkward. So rather than rewarding you for performing well, it feels like you have to perform well for the class to not feel like a mess.

Basically, I guess, I'm saying that by tuning specifically for end game content it makes the rest of the game feel like it doesn't matter at all which, in turn, has made it all feel pretty dull and rote in comparison.

I'm not arguing the case to make the game easier.

I'm attempting to explain to people that have the viewpoint that "balancing a job's performance around their performance in savage" is somehow making the jobs "harder".

Believing that fact is a logical fallacy, because if a job is tiered to be balanced and perform well in savage, then it is going to perform well in more casual content with sub-optimal play.

Thread: Patch 6.05 Notes

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