Mods and cheat engine

[MaxCarnage]

I literally googled PvP mods and went to the plugins discord. The things I saw:
1. a UI customization, so the colour is similar to the UI style of PvP content.
2. that's it.

The website you've found is just a place where people search for mods in other games, and it's not even a popular place for FFXIV playebase that are interested in that.


Again,
bots =/= mods, plugins.

How do you know what website I am looking at, as I cannot mention the name? The one I see has only FFXIV mods. And these people using the mods are not always automated. Not getting affected by crowd-control isn't botting. It's a mod. But go off, I guess.

See, you're already light years ahead of the other poster whose just ranting and raving like a lunatic. Thanks! I'd argue there is a world of difference between the sanitized and moderated plugins most people use, and actual full on hacks. I thought we were referring to the former in this thread?

How are they ranting and raving "like a lunatic" for simply telling you that more exists than what is in your bubble? And just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it is imaginary? From what I see, the only one acting as a "lunatic" is you, with your condesceding attitude and sense of self-righteousness.
I've participated in a lot of threads that Kolaina has, and I've seen them mention a few times that they post on their phone. It is not an easy feat to share links on the mobile site. I simply provided the evidence you were too lazy to look up yourself.

[Melorie]

Things becoming easier over time is sort of the nature of ongoing online games where you have some sort of power progression (i.e. leveling of some form). If you allow yourself to be unhappy because other people who achieved something did it more easily than you did as a result of that power creep over time, you'll just make yourself miserable. That's why I, personally, choose not to let myself get upset over someone else using tools to make a fight easier (or even just more accessible to them); if I value my own achievements only by their rarity or perceived difficulty, I'll just drive myself mad.

I would even say that, if you're the type of person that looks after hard achievements that brings you a sort of status and remain hard for a longer time, FFXIV is not even the best game for that. The relic you did will be easier, the mount you farmed 1493984 fights to get will appear at the moogle tomestone event, the gear you crafted by yourself before all your friends will be useless next patch, the minion or emote you paid bazigillions will be cheap eventually.
If the value of your achievements is solely dependent if others are able to do it or not, you'll always be disappointed, with or without plugin.


And even so, I'm struggling to find plugins that would really help me get certain achievements. You bet that, if I download cactpot, I still won't be able to land into a random ultimate party and clear it.

[MintnHoney]

How do you know what website I am looking at, as I cannot mention the name? The one I see has only FFXIV mods.

The incredible Catch-22: you can't tell us what the website is, therefore we can't know what you're seeing, but you expect us to just trust and believe that you're looking at this "website" without any proof, meanwhile Melorie replicated the search process and did not find what you say is there.

So basically, you're just squawking for the sake of it.

I simply provided the evidence you were too lazy to look up yourself.

Does this include the evidence that no one can even see, or...?

[Melorie]

How do you know what website I am looking at, as I cannot mention the name? The one I see has only FFXIV mods.

There are three sites where you find mods. I look at all of them, and the only PvP-related I've found is:
1. edits to the pvp gear look
2. ui re-colours/replacer
3. one that was supposed to remove pvp rewards so your game is more new game+ friendly?

You saying it's a mod, and yet I don't see it anywhere within the mod community spaces. So go off I guess.

[Kolaina]

Does this include the evidence that no one can even see, or...?

You mean the links they provided? Willfully ignorant or willfully instigating?

[Melorie]

You mean the links they provided? Willfully ignorant or willfully instigating?

Haven't you understood that people aren't arguing if cheating exists in PvP? People are discussing what the plugins/addons that the majority part of the community that is interested into mods and such uses have anything to do with it.
Y'all are saying it's a mod, and yet there's zero proof of that. Acting like the people that use this sort of thing are on the same basket of cheaters in PvP is being wilfully ignorant and wilfully instigating as well. You don't need to like or accept mods but quit being dramatic about it and associating people using re-shade to color their game, or a different hair, or a plugin to help with a fight with someone that isn't being affected by a CC skill in a specific game mode.

[Koldan]

So, the Coils raids used to be considered very difficult. But you can now run the Coils raids unsynced, with gear and abilities 40 levels higher, and basically solo them. Does this mean that someone who earned the Domitrix title back in ARR can take less pride in it now that the title is "easily achieved"? The presence of the title might be less impressive now, but I'd argue that most raiders who cleared Coils back then will still take pride in the fact that they did so back then, when they were still really difficult.

Heck, my FC's "Retro Raiders" group did Coils properly, synched down and everything, just last fall. And I can take pleasure in the fact that we managed to get through it properly, even if you can solo them unsynched now.

Similarly, I managed to get through Delubrum Reginae's savage variant prior to Zadnor coming out. Now DR Savage is considerably easier, what with the rays of valour mechanic added with Zadnor; people can go in and skip entire mechanics easily. But the fact that DRS is considerably easier now than when it first came out does nothing to change the fact that I'm happy I was able to clear it back then.

Things becoming easier over time is sort of the nature of ongoing online games where you have some sort of power progression (i.e. leveling of some form). If you allow yourself to be unhappy because other people who achieved something did it more easily than you did as a result of that power creep over time, you'll just make yourself miserable. That's why I, personally, choose not to let myself get upset over someone else using tools to make a fight easier (or even just more accessible to them); if I value my own achievements only by their rarity or perceived difficulty, I'll just drive myself mad.

Now, if we're talking about cheating in PvP, yeah, that's a problem; that's someone's cheating directly and deliberately impeding my ability to work towards an achievement, and I think that's wholly justified in getting upset about.

But "I ran content <X> blind, now people can run it unsynched/use Cactbot for callouts/whatever, so my achievement is lessened"? Nah, I can't find it in me to go with that logic. As I said, that way lies madness and misery, regardless of whether or not stuff like Cactbot exists. (Even aside from the fact that, as I noted, I consider Cactbot little different than having a good human raid-caller in voice chat and thus not really "cheating".)

Everything you mentioned is accessible inside the game, everyone can do it.
What we are talking about here are mods/hacks and such that allow you to do something base game doesnt give you, whats so hard to understand?
In mutlplayer environment there is no place to disparity like that.

[MaxCarnage]

The incredible Catch-22: you can't tell us what the website is, therefore we can't know what you're seeing, but you expect us to just trust and believe that you're looking at this "website" without any proof, meanwhile Melorie replicated the search process and did not find what you say is there.

So basically, you're just squawking for the sake of it.


Does this include the evidence that no one can even see, or...?

Well, maybe look further than the top 3 pages. I typed in "FFXIV frontline mods" and found a website specifically for a single pvp mod. But just because you or the other person couldn't find it, I'm "squawking".

[Kolaina]

snip

Ive already made my argument clear prior stating that any advantage over another player, i am against. That i believe all people should be on an equal and level playing field
Other however are arguing semantics or suggesting pve and pvp are not comparable despite both offering advantages not everyone in the same instance are playing with. I am not talking straight cosmetic mods. Idgaf about those. I am against those that change actual gameplay. I think that is fair.
It is not willfully ignorant or willfully instigating bringing up pvp when a common argument from people with the same or similar views as you argue “how does it effect you”. To point out there are ones that have a direct effect i think is valid. Just because maybe you or a few others don’t use the pvp ones specifically, doesnt mean others have a moral standing against using them for benefits that are directly against other players

[Melorie]

Everything you mentioned is accessible inside the game, everyone can do it.
What we are talking about here are mods/hacks and such that allow you to do something base game doesnt give you, whats so hard to understand?
In mutlplayer environment there is no place to disparity like that.

That's the whole point of modding though? They give you something the game doesn't have. Acting like it's giving you things that are destructive to the game though and affect people, is blowing it out of proportion, given it's not the case for the HUGE majority of the people that use them.

At this point, a lot of online games have/had it (E.V.E online, GW2, even RO had specific edits to the .grf to make your map more clear, TERA) and if it wasn't a plugin in-game, it could've been an external thing that gives you information that isn't easily accessible in game (BDO has very complex calculators for example). Even in Dead by Daylight, people customize their icons and other UI stuff with mods... That's the reality of online games nowadays, you can keep losing your mind like some people here because someone is using it, or you play the game like you want to. At this point, it doesn't really matter if you believe if there's "no place", they already have found their way.

It is not willfully ignorant or willfully instigating bringing up pvp when a common argument from people with the same or similar views as you argue “how does it effect you”. To point out there are ones that have a direct effect i think is valid. Just because maybe you or a few others don’t use the pvp ones specifically, doesnt mean others have a moral standing against using them for benefits that are directly against other players

It's true. I don't play PvP. And I think that people that are cheating inside PvP should be punished - I'm just saying that a huge part of the mod community, plugin creators, etc, are very against people creating things that affect others negatively, so when people pick everyone and place them in the same basket, it does seem extremely unfair to me.

I don't do much raiding, I have a terrible ping and I will never have a data center near where I live - you bet that if I tried to do savage or ultimate, I would download xivalexander. Many people I know are able to raid more comfortably because of it. And no one bats an eye because they're using something similar to it. So by all means, fight against bots and cheaters, but I ask that people in this discussion learn to separate things.