Mods and cheat engine

[Grebeny]

No, he wasn't. There weren't even telegraphed programs available at that point.

Straight lie, here is zepla talking very specifically after he was banned and showing the telegraph mod: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hgr8W03Tk0

Yes, he did. He specifically talked about overhauling the UI and adding elements from some of the more popular plugins.

Again you put words he didn't said and clearly know that because "we know what he is talking about" is very different from "he said he is adding it".

... what are you on about? They did no such thing. There were two plugins available immediately after they announced removing the AFK dodging people...

Another straight lie, a friend of mine was using those to escape AFK bans, and both of them were blocked. There were other ways people found to avoid those two and it is even in one of the weekly update letters (as far as you are talking straight lies as I showed above, i will not waste time to look for this one).

No, it isn't. Most players don't actually care about third party tools because it doesn't impact them whatsoever. The vast majority are coming in for the story, social aspects and whatnot. If that weren't the case, SE would have banned FFlogs and ACT a decade ago when they were first release. They never have despite the former gaining so much prominence in the raid scene it impacts the meta more than even the dev team. Don't believe me? Selfish jobs were never an actual problem in Stormblood.

Talking very specifically about Stormblood, people were complaining so much about dragoon and samurai because they had no party buffs and nobody wanted them in their parties. So there was an issue with selfish jobs, but on the other end. And I personally don't see issue with haveing ACT and FFlogs, but how they are used. As far as the community that uses them becomes more and more agressive, there is a point where many people (as I did in the last year and half) just had enough of this crap.

At this point in time, the estimated number of players using third party tools exceeds 300k based on just unique downloads. SE isn't attracting anywhere near enough players to replace the sheer number they would lose to offset banning them all wholesale. Hence why they never have.

Sold 10 million only last year, what they don't do? Can you fact check at least one of your statements before trolling?

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

Straight lie, here is zepla talking very specifically after he was banned and showing the telegraph mod: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hgr8W03Tk0

Zepla's video was simply showing the telegraph thingy from a different reddit post that you could clearly see from 2s of actually watching and comparing the reddit thread titles, Bagel wasn't using it. She even says right after the Bagel clip: "Here's another thing I want to show you." Which shows the two clips were unrelated. If you're going to argue he was banned for certain things, its best to get properly researched on what caused his ban.

The only thing he got banned for was the numbers under buffs add-on. My group watched Bagel all the time while we were world racing for information gathering, there wasn't any time at all before his ban, that he was using telegraph hacks. That being said, think about how ludicrous your statement would sound. It took nearly half of the first day for most streamer groups to even see the mechanic that telegraph hack is showing in that clip - without knowing how the mechanic functions, its impossible to make a telegraph hack since you have zero idea what you're supposed to be telegraphing. These hacks would have come, a week later after DSR was released at the earliest, a far cry from day/week 1.

Another straight lie, a friend of mine was using those to escape AFK bans, and both of them were blocked. There were other ways people found to avoid those two and it is even in one of the weekly update letters (as far as you are talking straight lies as I showed above, i will not waste time to look for this one).

I know of 5 different friends who used those plugins for ACT that avoided the auto-logout during EW's release and they worked flawlessly as they were still online in the same spot 13 hours later. Square has never 'trapped' any game coding; its a waste of dev time, money, and resources to do so. The most they do on a new patch is scramble the opcodes most add-ons use to communicate with certain variables in the game.

Also nice dodging; the burden of proof in this instance falls on you if you want to make a statement on official wording without sourcing. That being said, the post you're referring to is them talking about methods of circumventing the afk timer they patched out of the game; not 'trapping' the game code, which has a massive different connotation since it implies an undercover change intent on exposing something, when all they did was announce they were fixing several exploits players could use to get around the afk timer, the literal opposite of a trap which requires ignorance on the target's part to fall into it.

[Grebeny]

That being said, the post you're referring to is them talking about methods of circumventing the afk timer they patched out of the game; not 'trapping' the game code, which has a massive different connotation since it implies an undercover change intent on exposing something, when all they did was announce they were fixing several exploits players could use to get around the afk timer, the literal opposite of a trap which requires ignorance on the target's part to fall into it.

You didn't sourced any of your information. And clearly said there were no addons doing telegraphs during this ultimate, now claiming "but its from another user". The other thing is, I watched him half hour and I noticed instantly he had marker on the cast bar showing him when he is able to move during cast, he had something showing him when to press skill to send it in queue and when he was banned, his friends told him "we told you" because they knew he was cheating and he will get banned and warned him about it before they started the prog. And yes at release the none ban plugin was working, they added the code week or two after release. There are ways for data mining, but I don't want to promote any of this to explain how simple telegraphs may be added at new content, the tools they have now are quite a lot advanced, of course. But even just after the big drama for the streamers, someone posted how to make a perfect run of the ultimate with only 4 addons installed. He intentionally didn't posted the addons, but I will not spread the video too. It was just a show how the battle can be fully automated because of the lack of control of addons.

[MrSigy]

. He intentionally didn't posted the addons, but I will not spread the video too. It was just a show how the battle can be fully automated because of the lack of control of addons.

Tbh you are missing the point entirely. ACT triggers are the real cheats, generally made by players themselves during when it's relevent and in my book is already too much yet world 1st players abuse them. These addons are blatently cheats and nobody would ever consider doing ultimate with them if they care about the content. Also they are only made/released a lot later into the release cycle where they become obsolete.

Your response gets the same reaction for me as Zepla complaining about these addons, I don't give 2 cents abouts your opinion because it's worthless and holds no meaning.

[redheadturk]

Tbh you are missing the point entirely. ACT triggers are the real cheats, generally made by players themselves during when it's relevent and in my book is already too much yet world 1st players abuse them. These addons are blatently cheats and nobody would ever consider doing ultimate with them if they care about the content. Also they are only made/released a lot later into the release cycle where they become obsolete.

Your response gets the same reaction for me as Zepla complaining about these addons, I don't give 2 cents abouts your opinion because it's worthless and holds no meaning.

And how are the triggers made? By world firsters doing the content without the triggers so they can write said triggers! They can't even be created without people running the content in the first place.,

[HyoMinPark]

Talking very specifically about Stormblood, people were complaining so much about dragoon and samurai because they had no party buffs and nobody wanted them in their parties. So there was an issue with selfish jobs, but on the other end. And I personally don't see issue with haveing ACT and FFlogs, but how they are used. As far as the community that uses them becomes more and more agressive, there is a point where many people (as I did in the last year and half) just had enough of this crap.?

I have to question the accuracy of your statements, considering you couldn’t even properly name the selfish jobs present in Stormblood. Dragoon? A selfish job with no party buffs? Dragoon was one of the meta staples in SB (and HW) thanks to Battle Litany and its synergy with BRD, and through piercing resistance down giving both BRD and MCH a 5% damage gain, which was monumental for those two jobs. There was also Dragon Sight, which, while not as contributing as Litany or piercing, was also a buff. Samurai was the only true selfish melee in SB. Monk had Brotherhood, but it couldn’t compete as much with Dragoon and Ninja.

Nobody wanted Dragoon? In STORMBLOOD??? When piercing still existed and SB BRD interact with critical hit and Crit buffs? There were physical ranged that flat out refused to join statics if a DRG was not present. Dragoon and Bard were the dream team DPS pair in SB. MCH to a lesser extent, but any BRD or MCH who cared about their damage would not be happy unless a DRG was present.

Perhaps before you start telling others to fact check, you should also do some fact checking yourself.

[ForteNightshade]

Daeriion tackled some of this nonsense already. So I needn't repeat what they said. Instead, I'll address the rest.

Again you put words he didn't said and clearly know that because "we know what he is talking about" is very different from "he said he is adding it".

I never said this. You even quoted my exact response, which was, "They used a UI plugin which put abilities timers on the party list, something Yoshida has even said they're considering doing themselves."

Note the word "considering" and how it isn't an affirmation. What I said was precisely that, the dev team considering overhauling the UI based on the third party tools people have been using. I don't really think that needs further elaboration.

Another straight lie, a friend of mine was using those to escape AFK bans, and both of them were blocked. There were other ways people found to avoid those two and it is even in one of the weekly update letters (as far as you are talking straight lies as I showed above, i will not waste time to look for this one).

I do, however, want to touch on this because I also know several entire raid groups who used this specific plugin. In fact, you mention Xeno several times now yet if you happened to do even the slightest research, you'd know his discord is where a lot of people found out about it. And where clips of what happened with Bagel and Hiiro were posted along with reddit. Just because your friend used them that didn't work doesn't mean SE targeted any of these plugins.

Talking very specifically about Stormblood, people were complaining so much about dragoon and samurai because they had no party buffs and nobody wanted them in their parties. So there was an issue with selfish jobs, but on the other end. And I personally don't see issue with haveing ACT and FFlogs, but how they are used. As far as the community that uses them becomes more and more agressive, there is a point where many people (as I did in the last year and half) just had enough of this crap.

Tell me you haven't raided in Stormblood without telling me you haven't raided in Stormblood.

Jokes aside, I'm going to assume this was a hilarious typo on your part considering Dragoon was one of the most overpowered jobs of that era. Not only does it still have Battle Litany and Dragon Sight, ya know, two raid buffs. Stormblood was when it gave the Piercing debuff, which was a permanent 5% damage buff to both Bard and Machinist. Dragoon's presence was more a lock than any other job in the entire game and was considered "The Big Three" alongside Ninja and Bard as the three most insanely overpowered comp you could have. So much so, Dragoon's UcoB clears were more double Monk, Samurai and Black Mage combined.

With that said, you're still missing my point. The issue wasn't simply how powerful the comp was but that selfish jobs actively hurt your parse ranking due to them not contributing any buffs and FFlogs using personal damage instead of raid damage. If that system remained going into Shadowbringers, Samurai, White Mage and every other selfish job would have remained dead on arrival for the precise same reason. The creator of FFlogs even admitted the introduction of rDPS was entirely due to the sheer abundance of Dancer padded logs essentially ruining the ranking system. Likewise, the current tier of Savage does not, in any way, necessitate two healers. It would be far more efficient to bring five DPS. So why have none of the speed kill or parse groups done it? Because FFlogs requires a standard 2/2/4 split. If that ever changes, you'll instantly see every upper midcore group and higher telling one of their healers to pick a melee they wanna play.

Many who have had enough yet the program which allows all these plugins to function is only a few years old and among the most popular things downloaded in relation to FFXIV. Even Casual players want it for the QoL features. What you're saying just isn't lining up with reality.

Sold 10 million only last year, what they don't do? Can you fact check at least one of your statements before trolling?

You do realize sold copies does not mean active players, yes? Unless, of course, you genuinely believe the advertising nonsense that "over 24 million players are playing." If so, then why are people saying WoW is failing when they have 60+ million according to their advertisements?

In reality, the number is significantly lower. Our best estimation is based on the Lucky Bancho unofficial census, putting the active playerbase at 1.33 million. 300k of that is roughly just above 1/4th. Wanna tell us all again how third party tools and mods aren't exceedingly popular?

[BristolRuss]

Talking very specifically about Stormblood, people were complaining so much about dragoon and samurai because they had no party buffs and nobody wanted them in their parties. So there was an issue with selfish jobs, but on the other end. And I personally don't see issue with haveing ACT and FFlogs, but how they are used. As far as the community that uses them becomes more and more agressive, there is a point where many people (as I did in the last year and half) just had enough of this crap.

Before you go accusing another user of posting lies you should really fact-check yourself. You've posted a load of nonsense here.

[Grebeny]

Before you go accusing another user of posting lies you should really fact-check yourself. You've posted a load of nonsense here.

Oh, yeah. Ok, where did dragoon memes came from? Dragoon was so bad, that when my static was not playing our dragoon almost quit the game because in 2/3s of PFs dragoon was locked. For samurai, they were taking it, but it was nothing like in ShB "ooh, we need samurai, look at those numbers". It was more like, we have ninja and we need another one that is not dragoon. And we lost the old dragoon thanks exactly because of this locking it out of the content. I personally was a fan of what the dragoon was about. Didn't mind to have the ultra strong melee DPS that is constantly hard locked so they should be aware of their skill set and how to use it to take out the maximum of the job. Black mage is not dealing with the same now because they don't lock it (or fortunately they don't know how to lock it in PF), but they get all the "just change to red mage" crap from a while.

[HyoMinPark]

Oh, yeah. Ok, where did dragoon memes came from? Dragoon was so bad, that when my static was not playing our dragoon almost quit the game because in 2/3s of PFs dragoon was locked. For samurai, they were taking it, but it was nothing like in ShB "ooh, we need samurai, look at those numbers". It was more like, we have ninja and we need another one that is not dragoon. And we lost the old dragoon thanks exactly because of this locking it out of the content. I personally was a fan of what the dragoon was about. Didn't mind to have the ultra strong melee DPS that is constantly hard locked so they should be aware of their skill set and how to use it to take out the maximum of the job. Black mage is not dealing with the same now because they don't lock it (or fortunately they don't know how to lock it in PF), but they get all the "just change to red mage" crap from a while.

Are you talking about the lolDRG/floor tank DRG memes that started in ARR and HW? Trust me, they had nothing to do with this supposed lack of utility you seem to be under the impression the job had, and everything to do with bad players (and with DRG’s unfortunate lack of magical defense in ARR). Quite the contrary, it has offered party buffs since HW when they introduced Battle Litany. And it was a staple job in both HW and SB. Any raider worth their salt knew this. Even the casual raiders who didn’t subscribe to the raid meta were well aware the holy trinity for DPS were DRG, NIN, and BRD in SB. In HW, it was DRG, NIN, BRD, MCH.

I think you have your expansions confused. No decent PF was locking out DRG in SB. It was part of the meta comp. SAM was far more common to be locked or passed up when it came to groups that were meta- or parse-centric because they offered nothing in an environment where buffs and buffing personal damage were king. Aside from the fact that DRG offered incredible synergy with perhaps the most broken DPS job in SB after SMN: BRD.

Are you perhaps confusing SB (Stormblood) with ShB (Shadowbringers)? Because those were two very different expansions with two different metas. Again: please do some fact checking yourself.

Re: BLM switching to RDM—this has always been primarily a prog strat simply because RDM offers the recovery option with Verraise, and BLM requires extensive fight knowledge so that they can perform their rotation with as little forced movement as possible. Prog strats will always take an option for a combat raise over not having it at all; as well as just simplicity in general. You see this with WHM and AST: WHM is taken for prog due to ease of play compared to the latter (no card shenanigans) and (in SB and ShB, at least) its bottomless MP and penchant for recovery. AST is used after prog has finished because of the buffs it brings the raid.