Mods and cheat engine

[ForteNightshade]

They do guides because people need them, if the toys give you out the battle, nobody will watch their guides. And if you check the streams of Xeno and other hardcore players as him, their views jump from 1k to 15k when there is new content that people want to see cleared. When you have more and more tools to clear it day one before guide and you will not need to figure it out blind, people will not go to watch them, but just go and clear. And don't forget no matter if you like or not specific streamer, this is business model. Streamers don't put "good job" comments as food on the table. Videos with high view count may help better with the food.

You do realize players like Xeno clear Ultimate long before any of these programs even work, yes? His viewership spikes on new content release because it's new and players enjoy watching him. Third party plugins and the like won't impact this whatsoever because the whole point of Week 1 or WF racing is how quickly they clear not simply showcasing the content itself. Most people watching his stream either can't raid themselves, have no desire to or already have statics that simply aren't running 12+ hour days. Hence why they watch, instead. Plugins have nothing to do with it.

I agree for ultimates, so far I can't find full group of 8 people crazy enough to clear them entirely blind. I personally clear content only in blind, so if there is no people for something, I just avoid it until I find. But I am looking forward to it, there are few people that started to feel the hype for it.

Which isn't all that surprising. A lot of people don't want to invest the sheer amount of time blind prog demands. Or they simply don't find it fun. To each their own and all that.

Something unrelated that I noticed. Stop the fake news. There is not a single streamer that was banned for using dps meter. Even Xeno, Zepla and Arthars agreed all banned streamers were using cheats after they saw more detailed info about what mods were used by banned streamers. SE do not ban for mass reports because they do this manually. For unaware souls, mass report ban works when it is bot enforcing the ban. The guy that became popular in Japan was banned once before for using cheating mods and it was not huge surprise for taking another one for it, it had nothing to do with him being massively reported because he is white in Japan as many tried to "fake news". My concern and all the points I explained down are related with possibility of SE to enforce their rules.

You should really take your own advice. First and foremost, only two streamers were banned. Neither one of them were cheating. They used a UI plugin which put abilities timers on the party list, something Yoshida has even said they're considering doing themselves. If you're seriously going to call putting a timer under Nascent Flash on the party list some massive gameplay cheat, well, you may want to scroll up and see what actual cheating looks like. Nevertheless, both were banned entirely due to report bombing. We know this because 5chan literally orchestrated it to "see whether SE was serious." In the case of the more recent example, practically everyone has denounced that as cheating. There's a massive difference between the JP streamers adding buff timers to their party list and someone who had a mini-map which displayed how to execute every single mechanic.

Right now the arrogance of people that use insane amount of mods is in "they can't know if you do" because Yoshi said they don't want to add anti cheat, but that was not solid statement as it will never happen, this entirely depends on the community. At the same time way before anti cheats were a thing devs were just adding "traps". I believe system like this is used against mods in FF because there are really not a lot of them, but pretty much it works by the devs dowloading targeted mod and look how it interacts with the game. They find interactions that can't be achieved in normal play and add code to check if those actions are performed, this can be done both on game files and only client side stuff and server side changes. And SE may start doing this at any point if they decide specific part of the communiy crossed the line too far, as in my opinion they already did.

This is some tinfoil hat nonsense right here. The devs have never added "traps" or done anything of the sort. If they did, maybe they'd actually catch the multitude of bots destroying the crafting aspect of the game. Nevertheless, that isn't how developers work because it wouldn't be efficient. You're assuming these third party programs wouldn't be able to detect changes to the the very code they hook into to operate. Even on the assumption they couldn't, which is a massive assumption, it takes just a single person being banned for the programmers to immediately work on an update to get around it.

Nonetheless, it's not arrogance but simple pragmatism. Banning third party programs like mods, ACT and the like isn't cost efficient for SE. They will lose a sizable amount of money while gaining absolutely nothing for it. Hence why a certain website has been around for nearly a decade now.

[Grebeny]

Xeno clear Ultimate long before any of these programs even work, yes?

Bagel got banned for using telegraphs for boss attacks that were not suppose to be there. Way before Xeno cleared, Bagel group was world first in prog and all others were watching mechanics from his stream. So some of the tools already work on day one. The streamer from japan and the World first youtuber had addon showing them when they can start moving during cast and addon to see numbers they are not suppose in party list.

They used a UI plugin which put abilities timers on the party list, something Yoshida has even said they're considering doing themselves.

Yoshida never said such a thing. What was written in his note is that they will look at the third party tools used by community and evaluate what they may add to discourage usage of those tools. This specific addon was not mentioned in any way by his statement, they never stated they may add those numbers to the party list or they will implement any of the mods, the streamers were banned for. For example they added new sounds on specific mechanics to discourage players from using auto call bots, did they added auto call bots when they wanted to discourage players from using them?

Tdevs have never added "traps" or done anything of the sort.

Fast example. They implemented code to catch up on people that fake not being afk by using forward, backward macro on their keyboard when servers were overwhelming and nobody wanted to be DCed for AFK. The "dungeon bots" are almost extinct species, and if you played during HS or SB you would know what I am talking about. For crafting they need to press one button on a simple macro that maybe makes it too complicated, or we don't complain about it enough to make them take actions.

Banning third party programs like mods, ACT and the like isn't cost efficient for SE. They will lose a sizable amount of money while gaining absolutely nothing for it.

This mods are not allowed in first place, to be banned. In the last two days we saw around 7 really toxic communications both ingame and in discord related to ACT/FFlogs. You may not see it personally, but people get frustrated and stop playing the game because of it. For huge portion of the players, the selling point for this game was there is none or at least is reduced to an absolute minimum of this behavior. For sure SE already are losing money because people see the same bevaior they ran away from. BTW go back to first streams of Asmongold, even for him that was a one of the big selling points of FF XIV.
Just imagine if the NSFW mods generate a pedo scandal, as George Cacioppo knows pretty well, Sony have zero tollerance for it and may remove the entire FF from their platform. No money lost at all.

[Raoabolic]

Just imagine if the NSFW mods generate a pedo scandal, as George Cacioppo knows pretty well, Sony have zero tollerance for it and may remove the entire FF from their platform. No money lost at all.

Let's be real, Sony is just looking to axe anime/Japanese games from it's platform since they moved HQ. It would be better for the game in the long run if they just shook off the baggage that is Sony, imo.

[Grebeny]

Let's be real, Sony is just looking to axe anime/Japanese games from it's platform since they moved HQ. It would be better for the game in the long run if they just shook off the baggage that is Sony, imo.

The only game that in anyway proves your point is the censorship in DMC. But capcom confirmed they decided to add this censorship on their own, they were never asked to do so by Sony in any way. Every other example, sorry, I saw the things and it is disgusting other platforms allow it.

[ForteNightshade]

Bagel got banned for using telegraphs for boss attacks that were not suppose to be there. Way before Xeno cleared, Bagel group was world first in prog and all others were watching mechanics from his stream. So some of the tools already work on day one. The streamer from japan and the World first youtuber had addon showing them when they can start moving during cast and addon to see numbers they are not suppose in party list.

No, he wasn't. There weren't even telegraphed programs available at that point. He was banned for using a UI plugin, the very one I mentioned. You have no idea what you're talking about. The telegraphed programs are a recent thing which essentially show the mechanics for you. They aren't what Bagel and Hiiro for banned for back in May. Both were using the aforementioned plugin and one had triggers. You can debate all you fancy on if triggers are cheating but adding numbers underneath buffs isn't. That's absurd. Against the ToS? Absolutely. They shouldn't have streamed it. That's on them. It isn't cheating though.

Yoshida never said such a thing. What was written in his note is that they will look at the third party tools used by community and evaluate what they may add to discourage usage of those tools. This specific addon was not mentioned in any way by his statement, they never stated they may add those numbers to the party list or they will implement any of the mods, the streamers were banned for. For example they added new sounds on specific mechanics to discourage players from using auto call bots, did they added auto call bots when they wanted to discourage players from using them?

Yes, he did. He specifically talked about overhauling the UI and adding elements from some of the more popular plugins. Which is precisely what Bagel and Hiiro were using. He didn't name the actual plugin for obvious reasons but for those who know of or even use it, it's fairly obvious which one he was referencing.

Fast example. They implemented code to catch up on people that fake not being afk by using forward, backward macro on their keyboard when servers were overwhelming and nobody wanted to be DCed for AFK. The "dungeon bots" are almost extinct species, and if you played during HS or SB you would know what I am talking about. For crafting they need to press one button on a simple macro that maybe makes it too complicated, or we don't complain about it enough to make them take actions.

... what are you on about? They did no such thing. There were two plugins available immediately after they announced removing the AFK dodging people were doing by clicking market boards or opening their HUDs. They never touched either one of them despite both working by essentially masking key commands to trick the timer into thinking you pressed a button. The dungeon bots are less prevalent now because SE removed the gil drops. Instead, they've made their homes in map dungeons and Eureka. We've even had several threads about how Pyros is infected with bunny bots. Guess what SE has done about it? Absolutely nothing.

This mods are not allowed in first place, to be banned. In the last two days we saw around 7 really toxic communications both ingame and in discord related to ACT/FFlogs. You may not see it personally, but people get frustrated and stop playing the game because of it. For huge portion of the players, the selling point for this game was there is none or at least is reduced to an absolute minimum of this behavior. For sure SE already are losing money because people see the same bevaior they ran away from. BTW go back to first streams of Asmongold, even for him that was a one of the big selling points of FF XIV.
Just imagine if the NSFW mods generate a pedo scandal, as George Cacioppo knows pretty well, Sony have zero tollerance for it and may remove the entire FF from their platform. No money lost at all.

No, it isn't. Most players don't actually care about third party tools because it doesn't impact them whatsoever. The vast majority are coming in for the story, social aspects and whatnot. If that weren't the case, SE would have banned FFlogs and ACT a decade ago when they were first release. They never have despite the former gaining so much prominence in the raid scene it impacts the meta more than even the dev team. Don't believe me? Selfish jobs were never an actual problem in Stormblood. FFlogs made them one because bringing one meant actively hurting your ranking. Hence why White Mages everywhere were constantly asked to play Astro. That changed in Shadowbringers when they introduced rDPS/aDPS. Mods have created a scandal already with Ryne. Guess what? SE never did anything about them.

At this point in time, the estimated number of players using third party tools exceeds 300k based on just unique downloads. SE isn't attracting anywhere near enough players to replace the sheer number they would lose to offset banning them all wholesale. Hence why they never have.

[Grebeny]

No, he wasn't. There weren't even telegraphed programs available at that point.

Straight lie, here is zepla talking very specifically after he was banned and showing the telegraph mod: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hgr8W03Tk0

Yes, he did. He specifically talked about overhauling the UI and adding elements from some of the more popular plugins.

Again you put words he didn't said and clearly know that because "we know what he is talking about" is very different from "he said he is adding it".

... what are you on about? They did no such thing. There were two plugins available immediately after they announced removing the AFK dodging people...

Another straight lie, a friend of mine was using those to escape AFK bans, and both of them were blocked. There were other ways people found to avoid those two and it is even in one of the weekly update letters (as far as you are talking straight lies as I showed above, i will not waste time to look for this one).

No, it isn't. Most players don't actually care about third party tools because it doesn't impact them whatsoever. The vast majority are coming in for the story, social aspects and whatnot. If that weren't the case, SE would have banned FFlogs and ACT a decade ago when they were first release. They never have despite the former gaining so much prominence in the raid scene it impacts the meta more than even the dev team. Don't believe me? Selfish jobs were never an actual problem in Stormblood.

Talking very specifically about Stormblood, people were complaining so much about dragoon and samurai because they had no party buffs and nobody wanted them in their parties. So there was an issue with selfish jobs, but on the other end. And I personally don't see issue with haveing ACT and FFlogs, but how they are used. As far as the community that uses them becomes more and more agressive, there is a point where many people (as I did in the last year and half) just had enough of this crap.

At this point in time, the estimated number of players using third party tools exceeds 300k based on just unique downloads. SE isn't attracting anywhere near enough players to replace the sheer number they would lose to offset banning them all wholesale. Hence why they never have.

Sold 10 million only last year, what they don't do? Can you fact check at least one of your statements before trolling?

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

Straight lie, here is zepla talking very specifically after he was banned and showing the telegraph mod: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hgr8W03Tk0

Zepla's video was simply showing the telegraph thingy from a different reddit post that you could clearly see from 2s of actually watching and comparing the reddit thread titles, Bagel wasn't using it. She even says right after the Bagel clip: "Here's another thing I want to show you." Which shows the two clips were unrelated. If you're going to argue he was banned for certain things, its best to get properly researched on what caused his ban.

The only thing he got banned for was the numbers under buffs add-on. My group watched Bagel all the time while we were world racing for information gathering, there wasn't any time at all before his ban, that he was using telegraph hacks. That being said, think about how ludicrous your statement would sound. It took nearly half of the first day for most streamer groups to even see the mechanic that telegraph hack is showing in that clip - without knowing how the mechanic functions, its impossible to make a telegraph hack since you have zero idea what you're supposed to be telegraphing. These hacks would have come, a week later after DSR was released at the earliest, a far cry from day/week 1.

Another straight lie, a friend of mine was using those to escape AFK bans, and both of them were blocked. There were other ways people found to avoid those two and it is even in one of the weekly update letters (as far as you are talking straight lies as I showed above, i will not waste time to look for this one).

I know of 5 different friends who used those plugins for ACT that avoided the auto-logout during EW's release and they worked flawlessly as they were still online in the same spot 13 hours later. Square has never 'trapped' any game coding; its a waste of dev time, money, and resources to do so. The most they do on a new patch is scramble the opcodes most add-ons use to communicate with certain variables in the game.

Also nice dodging; the burden of proof in this instance falls on you if you want to make a statement on official wording without sourcing. That being said, the post you're referring to is them talking about methods of circumventing the afk timer they patched out of the game; not 'trapping' the game code, which has a massive different connotation since it implies an undercover change intent on exposing something, when all they did was announce they were fixing several exploits players could use to get around the afk timer, the literal opposite of a trap which requires ignorance on the target's part to fall into it.

[Grebeny]

That being said, the post you're referring to is them talking about methods of circumventing the afk timer they patched out of the game; not 'trapping' the game code, which has a massive different connotation since it implies an undercover change intent on exposing something, when all they did was announce they were fixing several exploits players could use to get around the afk timer, the literal opposite of a trap which requires ignorance on the target's part to fall into it.

You didn't sourced any of your information. And clearly said there were no addons doing telegraphs during this ultimate, now claiming "but its from another user". The other thing is, I watched him half hour and I noticed instantly he had marker on the cast bar showing him when he is able to move during cast, he had something showing him when to press skill to send it in queue and when he was banned, his friends told him "we told you" because they knew he was cheating and he will get banned and warned him about it before they started the prog. And yes at release the none ban plugin was working, they added the code week or two after release. There are ways for data mining, but I don't want to promote any of this to explain how simple telegraphs may be added at new content, the tools they have now are quite a lot advanced, of course. But even just after the big drama for the streamers, someone posted how to make a perfect run of the ultimate with only 4 addons installed. He intentionally didn't posted the addons, but I will not spread the video too. It was just a show how the battle can be fully automated because of the lack of control of addons.

[MrSigy]

. He intentionally didn't posted the addons, but I will not spread the video too. It was just a show how the battle can be fully automated because of the lack of control of addons.

Tbh you are missing the point entirely. ACT triggers are the real cheats, generally made by players themselves during when it's relevent and in my book is already too much yet world 1st players abuse them. These addons are blatently cheats and nobody would ever consider doing ultimate with them if they care about the content. Also they are only made/released a lot later into the release cycle where they become obsolete.

Your response gets the same reaction for me as Zepla complaining about these addons, I don't give 2 cents abouts your opinion because it's worthless and holds no meaning.

[HyoMinPark]

Talking very specifically about Stormblood, people were complaining so much about dragoon and samurai because they had no party buffs and nobody wanted them in their parties. So there was an issue with selfish jobs, but on the other end. And I personally don't see issue with haveing ACT and FFlogs, but how they are used. As far as the community that uses them becomes more and more agressive, there is a point where many people (as I did in the last year and half) just had enough of this crap.?

I have to question the accuracy of your statements, considering you couldn’t even properly name the selfish jobs present in Stormblood. Dragoon? A selfish job with no party buffs? Dragoon was one of the meta staples in SB (and HW) thanks to Battle Litany and its synergy with BRD, and through piercing resistance down giving both BRD and MCH a 5% damage gain, which was monumental for those two jobs. There was also Dragon Sight, which, while not as contributing as Litany or piercing, was also a buff. Samurai was the only true selfish melee in SB. Monk had Brotherhood, but it couldn’t compete as much with Dragoon and Ninja.

Nobody wanted Dragoon? In STORMBLOOD??? When piercing still existed and SB BRD interact with critical hit and Crit buffs? There were physical ranged that flat out refused to join statics if a DRG was not present. Dragoon and Bard were the dream team DPS pair in SB. MCH to a lesser extent, but any BRD or MCH who cared about their damage would not be happy unless a DRG was present.

Perhaps before you start telling others to fact check, you should also do some fact checking yourself.