Mods and cheat engine

[VerdeLuck]

The only thing I really care about is if developers start balancing content and classes around players having low ping and callout mods installed, and they become mandatory to clear content. Luckily even ACT and parsing isn't mandatory outside of some idiots in PF who take practice and clear parties too seriously.

[Saraide]

I mean, using a guide or un-syncing a fight isn't explicitly against the terms of service, and doesn't involve automating portions of the game. It's pretty easy to see that their definition of fair is probably something like "Not using an explicitly banned cheat program to gain an advantage".

Morals inform what is fair and what isnt, laws/rules dont do a good job at that. Unsyncing often times cuts off massive portions of fights. When I farmed o12s for the mount we never got to see hello world 2, yet I have the mount all the same. Outgearing the fight is an insanely unfair advantage over those who did the fight when it came out and you get to show of mounts and achievements anyway. Additionally, they seem to be fine with people using alexander to solve ping issues. That's an "explicitly banned cheat program" as you put it. It's just also the same program used to reduce animation lock to 0 to allow triple weaving without clipping if someone chose to go that route. Clearly we have moved beyond being a TOS herald and therefore we have to ask, what is fair?

[LittleImp]

Morals inform what is fair and what isnt, laws/rules dont do a good job at that. Unsyncing often times cuts off massive portions of fights. When I farmed o12s for the mount we never got to see hello world 2, yet I have the mount all the same. Outgearing the fight is an insanely unfair advantage over those who did the fight when it came out and you get to show of mounts and achievements anyway. Additionally, they seem to be fine with people using alexander to solve ping issues. That's an "explicitly banned cheat program" as you put it. It's just also the same program used to reduce animation lock to 0 to allow triple weaving without clipping if someone chose to go that route. Clearly we have moved beyond being a TOS herald and therefore we have to ask, what is fair?

XIVAlexander is used by people who don't even have serious ping issues because it allows them to send series' of normally impossible inputs by emulating an impossible game-state, so yeah it's also essentially a cheat program.

Really, it's not that complex of an issue at all. If a third party piece of software is offering active assistance with fight execution by doing something that would be impossible under normal circumstances, it's very easy to see why it's cheating. Even more-so when it's very explicitly prohibited by the rules created by the developers of the game.

You could make reasonable fairness argument around simple QoL plugins, graphical mods or combat loggers, but when it comes to things like Cactbot and XIVAlexander it's pretty black-and-white.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

So now we are on "cheaters are fine, its about how YOU feel about it" stage? Seriously?

Yes, we are. Because it's something you do on your free time to feel good about yourself. Gaming is self-care. And you're the one that transforms that self-care into stress by looking at what others do and have, and being jealous, not that they have more, but that they have the same. You're the only reason you feel bad about them having said mounts and titles. If those are that important to you, you should just seek help. FFXIV is a game, you can be proud of what you achieve, proud of what you build with people, but if something becomes so offsetting to you even though it doesn't affect your achievements, nor makes it more difficult for you to do your things, you have a toxic relationship with the game.

And it's a big "you", there seem to be many such cases around here.

[Saraide]

XIVAlexander is used by people who don't even have serious ping issues because it allows them to send series' of normally impossible inputs by emulating an impossible game-state, so yeah it's also essentially a cheat program.

Really, it's not that complex of an issue at all. If a third party piece of software is offering active assistance with fight execution by doing something that would be impossible under normal circumstances, it's very easy to see why it's cheating. Even more-so when it's very explicitly prohibited by the rules created by the developers of the game.

You could make reasonable fairness argument around simple QoL plugins, graphical mods or combat loggers, but when it comes to things like Cactbot and XIVAlexander it's pretty black-and-white.

Why did you answer for the person I asked in the way that you did when they themselves said that people shouldnt be banned for using xivalexander. I am not getting the impression you have actually read what they wrote.

[Rolder50]

The only thing I really care about is if developers start balancing content and classes around players having low ping and callout mods installed, and they become mandatory to clear content. Luckily even ACT and parsing isn't mandatory outside of some idiots in PF who take practice and clear parties too seriously.

I mean, they already design classes assuming you will have low ping. Just look at MCH!

[MaxCarnage]

Yes, we are. Because it's something you do on your free time to feel good about yourself. Gaming is self-care. And you're the one that transforms that self-care into stress by looking at what others do and have, and being jealous, not that they have more, but that they have the same. You're the only reason you feel bad about them having said mounts and titles. If those are that important to you, you should just seek help. FFXIV is a game, you can be proud of what you achieve, proud of what you build with people, but if something becomes so offsetting to you even though it doesn't affect your achievements, nor makes it more difficult for you to do your things, you have a toxic relationship with the game.

And it's a big "you", there seem to be many such cases around here.

Ah, so then by that sentiment, all the people cheating in PVP, using mods to insta-holmgang someone the instant they hit sprint, or insta-bind any time you use a jump skill, or make it so they do not get affected by crowd control skills, or be able to hit you from halfway across the map, are just doing self-care and it's a "me" problem for thinking that ruins my gameplay. /s

You continue to be willfully ignorant about the negative impact mods and plug-ins have on other people. Shows how self-centred you are.

[Rolder50]

Ah, so then by that sentiment, all the people cheating in PVP, using mods to insta-holmgang someone the instant they hit sprint, or insta-bind any time you use a jump skill, or make it so they do not get affected by crowd control skills, or be able to hit you from halfway across the map, are just doing self-care and it's a "me" problem for thinking that ruins my gameplay. /s

You continue to be willfully ignorant about the negative impact mods and plug-ins have on other people. Shows how self-centred you are.

I'm not aware of any mods that offer these advantages in PvP. Feels like you're just making stuff up at this point.

[Shialan]

I mean, they already design classes assuming you will have low ping. Just look at MCH!

Which has nothing to do with any of the ping tools, but is the default state of every ISP. It's not normal to have 100+ ms ping. So why would any developer actively develop for such cases, when it's more common to have 10-60 ms ping?

[Koldan]

If gaming is about self care how about you self care in some single player game and stop ruining integrity of multiplayer experience of an mmo. I am not arguing anti cheat neither i am arguing banning people outright. But its always online game thats server based, all that software just reads and delays/sends faster network packets. Its not rocket science to encrypt packets and if client sends them in unsupported ways to outright disconnect a person.