Mods and cheat engine

[LittleImp]

Absolutely incorrect and shows the disinformation campaign against certain plug ins has spread.

You can always tell the ones that are pushing hearsay over the actual facts.

Cactbot can be scripted to provide logical solutions based on a variety of tells that it can gather via network packets, sometimes before the mechanic is even visible client-side.



This isn't simply telling you what your debuff is; It's reading both the placement of the lasers AND your debuff, and then telling you where to pilot your character.



Here it is reading two peoples debuffs and making a decisions about Nisi.



Here it is instantly reading the coordinates where un-targetable actors spawn, then telling you exactly where and when to stand on a plugin-compatible marker set. It even used to be able to place the markers for you dynamically in combat, before the new marker system was rolled out .

In P3S it can call the plumes 4-5 seconds before they appear on screen, due to it using the same code as Cruise Chasers Optical Sight.

In the EW final trial it can instantly determine where the safespot from the large aoes are by reading actor coordinates as they spawn.

Again, the source-code for this plugin is public and I have read large portions of it. I could pull out examples all day where it's applying logic in lieu of the player, sometimes by reading tells that aren't even visible to the player yet. Just because it doesn't support a few fights well, doesn't mean it can't offer blatant shortcuts in others. And it does all of this instantly, and without making mistakes.

[JanVanding]

Cactbot can be scripted to provide logical solutions based on a variety of tells that it can gather via network packets, sometimes before the mechanic is even visible client-side.



This isn't simply telling you what your debuff is; It's reading both the placement of the lasers AND your debuff, and then telling you where to pilot your character.



Here it is reading two peoples debuffs and making a decisions about Nisi.



Here it is instantly reading the coordinates where un-targetable actors spawn, then telling you exactly where and when to stand on a plugin-compatible marker set. It even used to be able to place the markers for you dynamically in combat, before the new marker system was rolled out .

In P3S it can call the plumes 4-5 seconds before they appear on screen, due to it using the same code as Cruise Chasers Optical Sight.

In the EW final trial it can instantly determine where the safespot from the large aoes are by reading actor coordinates as they spawn.

Again, the source-code for this plugin is public and I have read large portions of it. I could pull out examples all day where it's applying logic in lieu of the player, sometimes by reading tells that aren't even visible to the player yet. Just because it doesn't support a few fights well, doesn't mean it can't offer blatant shortcuts in others. And it does all of this instantly, and without making mistakes.

Then as someone who would never use it to that kind of level, that's a bit much and definitely cheating, it could be because I never have it switched on in 99% of content and if I start seeing it doing stuff like that in Panda Savage, it's getting uninstalled and to heck with the fact that I probably won't be able to see in P3S (hopefully SE has finally done something about the orange vomit soon anyway)

I will admit my experience with it, is limited at best, could be as you put it, there's not a lot of support in current content so it's only displaying bare minimum information, but should it get that way? Uninstalled, because that's just straight telling you how to play the game.

[IdowhatIwant]

Cactbot can be scripted to provide logical solutions based on a variety of tells that it can gather via network packets, sometimes before the mechanic is even visible client-side.



This isn't simply telling you what your debuff is; It's reading both the placement of the lasers AND your debuff, and then telling you where to pilot your character.



Here it is reading two peoples debuffs and making a decisions about Nisi.



Here it is instantly reading the coordinates where un-targetable actors spawn, then telling you exactly where and when to stand on a plugin-compatible marker set. It even used to be able to place the markers for you dynamically in combat, before the new marker system was rolled out .

In P3S it can call the plumes 4-5 seconds before they appear on screen, due to it using the same code as Cruise Chasers Optical Sight.

In the EW final trial it can instantly determine where the safespot from the large aoes are by reading actor coordinates as they spawn.

Again, the source-code for this plugin is public and I have read large portions of it. I could pull out examples all day where it's applying logic in lieu of the player, sometimes by reading tells that aren't even visible to the player yet. Just because it doesn't support a few fights well, doesn't mean it can't offer blatant shortcuts in others. And it does all of this instantly, and without making mistakes.

You realize, all this information is online, where to stand during certain mechanics, what time mechanics will happen.

[LittleImp]

You realize, all this information is online, where to stand during certain mechanics, what time mechanics will happen.

It isn't provided to you dynamically, and specifically catered to your exact game-state in the moment. If you learn something from a guide, you still need to apply pattern recognition, solve the mechanic using logic and then execute on that conclusion. Cactbot fundamentally automates 2/3rd's of that interaction for the player.

[Shougun]

It isn't provided to you dynamically, and specifically catered to your exact game-state in the moment. If you learn something from a guide, you still need to apply pattern recognition, solve the mechanic using logic and then execute on that conclusion. Cactbot fundamentally automates 2/3rd's of that interaction for the player.

I understand maybe for some people this isn't helpful. I said it in the other thread but for sake of this one too.

This concept DOES help me, when I played WoW DBM (and other like tools) made me a better player while also having to give less effort (meaning technically more could be expected without going out of the comfort zone).

Maybe for some it's not that useful or is similar to reading a guide, from my personal perspective it will make some players better while also making them have to work less hard.

I think that is substantial, I'm not really calling a ban for it-- I just want the conversation to be more honest. I feel some are exaggerating the evils of some of the more popular tools and others are acting like they do nothing at all. Neither of those seem right to me. If you're playing better in my group because of this tool... that's nice for me lol, but experience from WoW I say that the tool discussed would absolutely allow me to play better with less info. I'd respond faster, more accurately, and more consistently. IE, better. Which 'could' have an impact on how hard SE thinks they need to make stuff, or make people asking for harder things because they've a tool helping them... and if they want it harder it's a bit weird given they're having Navi whisper in their ear on how to play best while other players don't get that.

It wouldn't bother me if the tool was baked right into the game official, but I do strongly believe the tool has an impact on some players presented skill levels and may also likely have an actual indirect impact on the devs (though it is of course important to note some people are so into playing good that the tool is useless, you know those people who call out the entire raid while also playing perfectly). Of course if you don't have the agility for the responsive nature then having more info probably wont help lol, also as people know- can have an expert call out player but if people don't actually listen it wont help.. So it's not a magic bullet, but I'd at least call it a solid modifier for many people (x2 to output, so long as your output isn't 0, and you're not already well beyond and above requirements-- can be very useful).

[LittleImp]

I understand maybe for some people this isn't helpful. I said it in the other thread but for sake of this one too.

This concept DOES help me, when I played WoW DBM (and other like tools) made me a better player while also having to give less effort (meaning technically more could be expected without going out of the comfort zone).

The primary difference is that World of Warcraft's approach to encounter design evolved over the years to reflect the proliferation of addons like DBM, which the developers fully support through their API.

FFXIV on the other hand is not designed with these addons in mind, provides no official support for them, and actively encourages players not to use them under threat of a ban.

[KageTokage]

I understand maybe for some people this isn't helpful. I said it in the other thread but for sake of this one too.

This concept DOES help me, when I played WoW DBM (and other like tools) made me a better player while also having to give less effort (meaning technically more could be expected without going out of the comfort zone).

Maybe for some it's not that useful or is similar to reading a guide, from my personal perspective it will make some players better while also making them have to work less hard.

I think that is substantial, I'm not really calling a ban for it-- I just want the conversation to be more honest. I feel some are exaggerating the evils of some of the more popular tools and others are acting like they do nothing at all. Neither of those seem right to me. If you're playing better in my group because of this tool... that's nice for me lol, but experience from WoW I say that the tool discussed would absolutely allow me to play better with less info. I'd respond faster, more accurately, and more consistently. IE, better. Which 'could' have an impact on how hard SE thinks they need to make stuff, or make people asking for harder things because they've a tool helping them... and if they want it harder it's a bit weird given they're having Navi whisper in their ear on how to play best while other players don't get that.

It wouldn't bother me if the tool was baked right into the game official, but I do strongly believe the tool has an impact on some players presented skill levels and may also likely have an actual indirect impact on the devs (though it is of course important to note some people are so into playing good that the tool is useless, you know those people who call out the entire raid while also playing perfectly). Of course if you don't have the agility for the responsive nature then having more info probably wont help lol, also as people know- can have an expert call out player but if people don't actually listen it wont help.. So it's not a magic bullet, but I'd at least call it a solid modifier for many people (x2 to output, so long as your output isn't 0, and you're not already well beyond and above requirements-- can be very useful).

I feel like the bottom line with Cactbot is that if it's using packet reading to provide players with information faster then the game itself does normally (Generally via reading hidden casts from entities that don't show up on your enmity list or in your combat log or isolating which variant of an ambiguous mechanic like Optical Sight is being used before the tell actually appears), that's kind of indefensibly cheating.

[IdowhatIwant]

I feel like the bottom line with Cactbot is that if it's using packet reading to provide players with information faster then the game itself does normally (Generally via reading hidden casts from entities that don't show up on your enmity list or in your combat log or isolating which variant of an ambiguous mechanic like Optical Sight is being used before the tell actually appears), that's kind of indefensibly cheating.

I think if it's not causing any problems, and people find it useful thats fine. I think players should learn to play with out these tools as it is more fun. But if it does make your game experience better go for it but be aware it is against ToS so don't talk about using it.
Players that are against it need to grow up. It does not harm you, until some one says you need cactpot or x mod to join this group, it is not an issue. Since there is a huge amount of people that want to tattle tell on every player for the most petty reasons, and because it is against the ToS, it likely will not become an issue. If is not your job to enforce the ToS it is SE's job. Glad some of you out there like to work for free.

[Saraide]

I feel like the bottom line with Cactbot is that if it's using packet reading to provide players with information faster then the game itself does normally (Generally via reading hidden casts from entities that don't show up on your enmity list or in your combat log or isolating which variant of an ambiguous mechanic like Optical Sight is being used before the tell actually appears), that's kind of indefensibly cheating.

It is technically cheating but the impact of it is pretty low since all those mechanics are designed to be doable without things like cactbot, meaning if you know a fight yourself you will have enough time to adjust. What you are cheating with cactbot is learning process, not the end result.