Mods and cheat engine

[LittleImp]

Absolutely incorrect and shows the disinformation campaign against certain plug ins has spread.

You can always tell the ones that are pushing hearsay over the actual facts.

Cactbot can be scripted to provide logical solutions based on a variety of tells that it can gather via network packets, sometimes before the mechanic is even visible client-side.



This isn't simply telling you what your debuff is; It's reading both the placement of the lasers AND your debuff, and then telling you where to pilot your character.



Here it is reading two peoples debuffs and making a decisions about Nisi.



Here it is instantly reading the coordinates where un-targetable actors spawn, then telling you exactly where and when to stand on a plugin-compatible marker set. It even used to be able to place the markers for you dynamically in combat, before the new marker system was rolled out .

In P3S it can call the plumes 4-5 seconds before they appear on screen, due to it using the same code as Cruise Chasers Optical Sight.

In the EW final trial it can instantly determine where the safespot from the large aoes are by reading actor coordinates as they spawn.

Again, the source-code for this plugin is public and I have read large portions of it. I could pull out examples all day where it's applying logic in lieu of the player, sometimes by reading tells that aren't even visible to the player yet. Just because it doesn't support a few fights well, doesn't mean it can't offer blatant shortcuts in others. And it does all of this instantly, and without making mistakes.

[JanVanding]

Cactbot can be scripted to provide logical solutions based on a variety of tells that it can gather via network packets, sometimes before the mechanic is even visible client-side.



This isn't simply telling you what your debuff is; It's reading both the placement of the lasers AND your debuff, and then telling you where to pilot your character.



Here it is reading two peoples debuffs and making a decisions about Nisi.



Here it is instantly reading the coordinates where un-targetable actors spawn, then telling you exactly where and when to stand on a plugin-compatible marker set. It even used to be able to place the markers for you dynamically in combat, before the new marker system was rolled out .

In P3S it can call the plumes 4-5 seconds before they appear on screen, due to it using the same code as Cruise Chasers Optical Sight.

In the EW final trial it can instantly determine where the safespot from the large aoes are by reading actor coordinates as they spawn.

Again, the source-code for this plugin is public and I have read large portions of it. I could pull out examples all day where it's applying logic in lieu of the player, sometimes by reading tells that aren't even visible to the player yet. Just because it doesn't support a few fights well, doesn't mean it can't offer blatant shortcuts in others. And it does all of this instantly, and without making mistakes.

Then as someone who would never use it to that kind of level, that's a bit much and definitely cheating, it could be because I never have it switched on in 99% of content and if I start seeing it doing stuff like that in Panda Savage, it's getting uninstalled and to heck with the fact that I probably won't be able to see in P3S (hopefully SE has finally done something about the orange vomit soon anyway)

I will admit my experience with it, is limited at best, could be as you put it, there's not a lot of support in current content so it's only displaying bare minimum information, but should it get that way? Uninstalled, because that's just straight telling you how to play the game.

[IdowhatIwant]

Cactbot can be scripted to provide logical solutions based on a variety of tells that it can gather via network packets, sometimes before the mechanic is even visible client-side.



This isn't simply telling you what your debuff is; It's reading both the placement of the lasers AND your debuff, and then telling you where to pilot your character.



Here it is reading two peoples debuffs and making a decisions about Nisi.



Here it is instantly reading the coordinates where un-targetable actors spawn, then telling you exactly where and when to stand on a plugin-compatible marker set. It even used to be able to place the markers for you dynamically in combat, before the new marker system was rolled out .

In P3S it can call the plumes 4-5 seconds before they appear on screen, due to it using the same code as Cruise Chasers Optical Sight.

In the EW final trial it can instantly determine where the safespot from the large aoes are by reading actor coordinates as they spawn.

Again, the source-code for this plugin is public and I have read large portions of it. I could pull out examples all day where it's applying logic in lieu of the player, sometimes by reading tells that aren't even visible to the player yet. Just because it doesn't support a few fights well, doesn't mean it can't offer blatant shortcuts in others. And it does all of this instantly, and without making mistakes.

You realize, all this information is online, where to stand during certain mechanics, what time mechanics will happen.

[LittleImp]

You realize, all this information is online, where to stand during certain mechanics, what time mechanics will happen.

It isn't provided to you dynamically, and specifically catered to your exact game-state in the moment. If you learn something from a guide, you still need to apply pattern recognition, solve the mechanic using logic and then execute on that conclusion. Cactbot fundamentally automates 2/3rd's of that interaction for the player.

[Shougun]

It isn't provided to you dynamically, and specifically catered to your exact game-state in the moment. If you learn something from a guide, you still need to apply pattern recognition, solve the mechanic using logic and then execute on that conclusion. Cactbot fundamentally automates 2/3rd's of that interaction for the player.

I understand maybe for some people this isn't helpful. I said it in the other thread but for sake of this one too.

This concept DOES help me, when I played WoW DBM (and other like tools) made me a better player while also having to give less effort (meaning technically more could be expected without going out of the comfort zone).

Maybe for some it's not that useful or is similar to reading a guide, from my personal perspective it will make some players better while also making them have to work less hard.

I think that is substantial, I'm not really calling a ban for it-- I just want the conversation to be more honest. I feel some are exaggerating the evils of some of the more popular tools and others are acting like they do nothing at all. Neither of those seem right to me. If you're playing better in my group because of this tool... that's nice for me lol, but experience from WoW I say that the tool discussed would absolutely allow me to play better with less info. I'd respond faster, more accurately, and more consistently. IE, better. Which 'could' have an impact on how hard SE thinks they need to make stuff, or make people asking for harder things because they've a tool helping them... and if they want it harder it's a bit weird given they're having Navi whisper in their ear on how to play best while other players don't get that.

It wouldn't bother me if the tool was baked right into the game official, but I do strongly believe the tool has an impact on some players presented skill levels and may also likely have an actual indirect impact on the devs (though it is of course important to note some people are so into playing good that the tool is useless, you know those people who call out the entire raid while also playing perfectly). Of course if you don't have the agility for the responsive nature then having more info probably wont help lol, also as people know- can have an expert call out player but if people don't actually listen it wont help.. So it's not a magic bullet, but I'd at least call it a solid modifier for many people (x2 to output, so long as your output isn't 0, and you're not already well beyond and above requirements-- can be very useful).

[JanVanding]

1. If you get filtered make you own party.
2. If you are getting filtered it likely means you are not meeting requirements to raid to begin with, perhaps take time to learn your class more or improve your gear.
3. SE only takes action if you are using parsers to harass players.
4. Not allowing players to join your party for x reason is not considered harassment.
5. Dummies have no point in existing is parsers did not exist.

Additionally to this.

All groups will do if they see someone massively underperforming (dying constantly at the same mechanic, doing way below expected dps) is disband and reform without that person.

That's not harassment, it's well within their right and people need to remember a little thing they agree to when they consent to unlocking Extreme and Savage.

"Upon agreeing to this you will be consenting to more difficult content where you will be expected to perform to the best of your abilities"

Clicking agree means you know you're expected to try your best at all times in that content. If you are free styling, stood around, not doing anything or dying over and over and over again to the same mechanic and refusing to listen when the raid leader tries to calmly explain it.

Sorry, but you're not trying your best, you're trying to get carried and you're not fulfilling the letter of the constent.

[JanVanding]

Everything said above +


Either you don't know what you're talking about, either you do and just hate cactbot so much just out of principle.



As I said, this is private stuff, and as I said, I'm sure if you can show these people in roster trials that you don't need cactbot, they'll take you if you're good enough. Or they don't know how the game works and won't make much progress, so you're not missing on anything. And even then, nothing prevents you from doing your own static, cactbot-free, if EVER every last static demands you got it.



You've made that clear, but please don't call them handicap mods, and please, stop pretending you know what is just or not. To each his own, there are people out there that have their own endgame that focuses on gardening, surely, you'll always find people that don't want to install cactbot if it ever becomes somewhat mandatory.

Given that Gshade modders have now released a filter for P3S for people like me with Deuteronomy, I find the person calling the mods "Handicap" mods extremely offensive.

It's like they're saying I shouldn't raid because SE didn't have time to QA a certain fight so the fact I can't see anything going on it means I should give up entirely and that's straight up discrimination.

[Atamis]

Given that Gshade modders have now released a filter for P3S for people like me with Deuteronomy, I find the person calling the mods "Handicap" mods extremely offensive.

It's like they're saying I shouldn't raid because SE didn't have time to QA a certain fight so the fact I can't see anything going on it means I should give up entirely and that's straight up discrimination.

For the record I did not say any of that. You did. Handicap isn't a derogatory word. If you define it as such i have no control over that and it isn't my business.
Shaders to overcome a physical limitation isn't the same as an advantage (or disadvantage) given to one side. nor did i advocate for discrimination based on that. Mods to alleviate problems like that (or replacing spider mobs with anything else) is definitely where mods shine.

[JanVanding]

Gasp raiders don't fight mods meant to be used while raiding and just tip toe around parsers discriminating against classes that do 2% less damage. shocking. Please stop being disingenuous. All it takes is a trip to the dps/tank/healer forums to see the panic posts about perceived numbers possibly maybe preventing classes from joining groups, self imposed or otherwise.

Cleared P1S with a PLD, a WHM and myself on SGE
A group cleared P4S all phases with DNC/MCH

Jobs are getting buffed really soon anyway and there is little call for these panic threads.

There will always be meta sheep, this has been true for 20 years of MMO gaming.

They are a loud minority and the common phrase among the Raiding community at wide is "Never play a Meta job if you're not comfortable with it, comfort will always outperform a job you're not used to playing regularly"

It's hysteria, nothing more.

[GrizzlyTank]

These threads always feel disingenuous...