Mods and cheat engine

[Packetdancer]

Using Cactbot makes you a bad player change my mind.

Relying on Cactbot makes you a careless player. But relying on a human raid caller does the same thing.

A raid caller -- whether automated or human -- should be a sanity check on your own read of mechanics, not a drill sergeant whose orders you blindly follow.

Sure, Cactbot can read a mechanic earlier than a human can in some cases. On the other hand, as I understand it there are mechanics Cactbot can't read/call in a sane manner, so will just be like "Do the mechanic now!" where a human could actually give better guidance. (Witness I've seen people blindly following Cactbot in P1S who die to Shackles of Time during Shining Cells consistently, and I've been told it's because Cactbot calls that in some sort of weird way.)

So it seems like there's places Cactbot will absolutely be better than a human raid caller, and there's places it'll also potentially be worse. And if you're relying on one rather than reading the mechanics for yourself, it seems like fundamentally the same problem to me regardless of whether it's Cactbot you're blindly following or, well, me.

I mean, the reason I raid-call is that it forces me to learn the fight's timeline and mechanics well enough that I can call them for other people. But I tend to assume they're going to be treating my callouts as reminders or a sanity-check, not as something they should blindly follow without question.

[JanVanding]

Relying on Cactbot makes you a careless player. But relying on a human raid caller does the same thing.

A raid caller -- whether automated or human -- should be a sanity check on your own read of mechanics, not a drill sergeant whose orders you blindly follow.

Sure, Cactbot can read a mechanic earlier than a human can in some cases. On the other hand, as I understand it there are mechanics Cactbot can't read/call in a sane manner, so will just be like "Do the mechanic now!" where a human could actually give better guidance. (Witness I've seen people blindly following Cactbot in P1S who die to Shackles of Time during Shining Cells consistently, and I've been told it's because Cactbot calls that in some sort of weird way.)

So it seems like there's places Cactbot will absolutely be better than a human raid caller, and there's places it'll also potentially be worse. And if you're relying on one rather than reading the mechanics for yourself, it seems like fundamentally the same problem to me regardless of whether it's Cactbot you're blindly following or, well, me.

I mean, the reason I raid-call is that it forces me to learn the fight's timeline and mechanics well enough that I can call them for other people. But I tend to assume they're going to be treating my callouts as reminders or a sanity-check, not as something they should blindly follow without question.

this is true.

Shining Cells it calls out the colour only (which you can literally see being casted anyway) and no text for the flails, you have to figure that out yourself.

The element stacks, it will only give you the colour you are debuffed by and nothing else, it will not solve the puzzle for you, you have to do that yourself.

Fourfold it will give you the debuff description as you get it (i.e 18S) it's up to you to solve it and it won't solve it for you.

It's basically just giving you the information you already have in a more easy to quick read format.

[JadedPurity]

Worse things have been going on for years, but no. Ledge sitting is the straw that breaks the camels back. You ppl have wierd priorities.

[VirusOnline]

Worse things have been going on for years, but no. Ledge sitting is the straw that breaks the camels back. You ppl have wierd priorities.

Probably because it's the easiest and most obvious visual clue that someone is modifying their game files.
That is what cheat engine does. It modifies game files/game process and everyone can see it and everyone knows it.
I don't really care tbh but people wanna be seen so they get seen lol.

[JadedPurity]

Probably because it's the easiest and most obvious visual clue that someone is modifying their game files.
That is what cheat engine does. It modifies game files/game process and everyone can see it and everyone knows it.
I don't really care tbh but people wanna be seen so they get seen lol.

Yes, but this is minimal compared to other things (that SE knows about has has ALWAYS known about, and does nothing about as long as people keep quiet.) If they were going to do something it would have started there. Theyre not going to pick out people harmlessly sitting on ledges as the first thing they address. When people come here to complain about things that dont affect them in any way, my first thought will always be theyre just mad that they can't do it too. They dont care one bit that people are modifying files. They only care because they can't join the club and if they could they would be right on post just like this one telling the poster to stop crying and suck it up.

[VirusOnline]

Yes, but this is minimal compared to other things (that SE knows about has has ALWAYS known about, and does nothing about as long as people keep quiet.) If they were going to do something it would have started there. Theyre not going to pick out people harmlessly sitting on ledges as the first thing they address. When people come here to complain about things that dont affect them in any way, my first thought will always be theyre just mad that they can't do it too. They dont care one bit that people are modifying files. They only care because they can't join the club and if they could they would be right on post just like this one telling the poster to stop crying and suck it up.

Who knows. It's the whole Limsa bean mindset really and I don't care for it personally.
I mean look at parsers. No one would know unless you said something, but people still piss and moan about some unseen threat to their ego lol.

Then again, this is interesting.
The ledge sit is quite innocent despite the fact that it does go against ToS and may be doing more.
I won't presume to know how it all works, but I'm making an assumption that these type of mods like the ledge sit that affect what other players can see is a result of it sending information to the server itself meaning this is not a mod that's affecting the user's own client but actually sending faulty information to a server that is not your IP/personal hardware. It's one thing to modify your own client, it's another to send modified information to a server.

[Lunatory]

The ledge sit is quite innocent despite the fact that it does go against ToS and may be doing more.
I won't presume to know how it all works, but I'm making an assumption that these type of mods like the ledge sit that affect what other players can see is a result of it sending information to the server itself meaning this is not a mod that's affecting the user's own client but actually sending faulty information to a server that is not your IP/personal hardware. It's one thing to modify your own client, it's another to send modified information to a server.

While I can not speak for the Cheat Engine method, the same can be replicated by hex editing the hotbar file in your My Games folder. The /sit and /doze emotes function as shortcuts and the game (client) will decide which actual emote to send to the server. If the client detects you sitting on a chair, you'll play the chairsit emote. If not, you get the groundsit emote.

You hex edit a hotbar slot to make you play the chairsit emote directly rather than the normal /sit shortcut. The server will accept this input since /chairsit is a legitimate emote and the server does not care to double check if you are in fact on a chair.
If I wanted to I could back up my hotbar file to SE's servers using the character select screen and load it up on my Playstation and proceed to chairsit anywhere on the Playstation version of the game. No network hacking required in the slightest. Just manually firing an emote that is normally only fired through /sit or /doze. I imagine the Cheat Engine version does just this as well?

[JanVanding]

Lord, at this rate we're going to have aimbotters crying they're being gatekept.

I'm sorry but how does seeing cast bars and a bit of summary text equate to an aimbot?

It's not resolving the mechanics

It's not playing the game

It's not doing anything but giving a weak auras style bit of text and having information presented

That is already readily available!

Why do you hate that? Why would you even think that cheating? Dangerous road your walking because ACT is the tool that you have reading your network files and you use it, so technically would that not be you cheating as well? To gather information from a set of third party tools to understand your performance and improve it?

Now, if the tool was literally telling me exactly where to stand, what to do, everything like it's holding my hand through the fight. Then you have a point.

It literally doesn't do that. I still have to pay attention to what's going on, where I need to be, what I need to do and I don't need the tool for any of that

Oh and btw 99 parse results? Someone uses the tool themselves for optimizing don't they? Go on, you can admit it and feel no shame for doing so

Because if your shot caller is using it (which you already admitted it was happening due to a cancelled Tuesday raid because it wasn't updated)

You're using it because they're using it to optimise their callouts to you, making it easier for you to play optimally.

[Saraide]

I'm sorry but how does seeing cast bars and a bit of summary text equate to an aimbot?

It's not resolving the mechanics

It's not playing the game

It's not doing anything but giving a weak auras style bit of text and having information presented

That is already readily available!

Why do you hate that? Why would you even think that cheating? Dangerous road your walking because ACT is the tool that you have reading your network files and you use it, so technically would that not be you cheating as well? To gather information from a set of third party tools to understand your performance and improve it?

Now, if the tool was literally telling me exactly where to stand, what to do, everything like it's holding my hand through the fight. Then you have a point.

It literally doesn't do that. I still have to pay attention to what's going on, where I need to be, what I need to do and I don't need the tool for any of that

Oh and btw 99 parse results? Someone uses the tool themselves for optimizing don't they? Go on, you can admit it and feel no shame for doing so

Because if your shot caller is using it (which you already admitted it was happening due to a cancelled Tuesday raid because it wasn't updated)

You're using it because they're using it to optimise their callouts to you, making it easier for you to play optimally.

I always had the believe that using cactbot is cheating the learning process, not the end result. Cheating as in taking an unintended shortcut. But in the end I dont think you have any real advantage over someone just playing and knowing the fight well. It is kinda cringe however if someone has to cancel raid days because cactbot isnt updated.

[LittleImp]

I'm sorry but how does seeing cast bars and a bit of summary text equate to an aimbot?

It's not resolving the mechanics

It's not playing the game

Solving and reading puzzle mechanics is an inherent part of this games practical execution.

It's not doing anything but giving a weak auras style bit of text and having information presented

That is already readily available!

Players cannot directly read network packets, which often contain information about upcoming mechanics. It also automates part of the decision making process in regards to many mechanics, removing the necessity for players to 'solve' mechanics.

Because if your shot caller is using it (which you already admitted it was happening due to a cancelled Tuesday raid because it wasn't updated)

You're using it because they're using it to optimise their callouts to you, making it easier for you to play optimally.

A member of my raid-group was using it to assist them in solving personal responsibility mechanics that couldn't reliably be called for them by myself, as well as for timeline tracking purposes to prep for upcoming mechs. We had to cancel raid because they refused to attend that day. They were kicked from the static eventually because it turned out they were also using scripts to automate portions of their rotation. People who are willing to shortcut certain things, will often shortcut others.

So you want to call me a cheater for finding a way to address a disability that SE failed to account for?

Funny how this point only comes out after all of your other justifications have been refuted. Shouldn't this have been something you said earlier if it was such a critical point?

SE does largely account for this, the additional shape/animation tells you cited as relying on are intentionally created for the benefit of people that struggle with color recognition.