The Dead Ends is yet another error in the push to make everything hardcore

[Raige]

Yeah, but I was a hardcore raider in EQ.... it wasn't group jump rope.....although I did play a chanter and had to keep the Rathe mezzed FOREVER in that fight.... we don't have stuff like that here.

Ahh. The days where as long as the Tanks and Healers weren't bad and you had 87hrs to raid, you'd undoubtedly win. I do miss them but I also don't want those days back! haha

[ApolloGenX]

Ahh. The days where as long as the Tanks and Healers weren't bad and you had 87hrs to raid, you'd undoubtedly win. I do miss them but I also don't want those days back! haha

Fair enough... but it was a different paradigm, where the "holy trinity" was tank/heals/slow,CC .... so it was a different playstyle. Not as twitchy. It feels like the more jump rope extreme FFXIV gets the more like an FPS the fights feel like.

Considering the turn based roots of FF, it's quite a different style.

[Kemiko]

I very much disagree that Dead Ends is pushing at all towards hardcore content difficulty. I wouldn't even put it anywhere near the difficulty of Pharos Sirius in 2.1 or Steps of Faith in 3.0 and neither of those were hardcore difficulty either.

I agree that MSQ content shouldn't be super hard but it should be challenging enough that you can't just zone out from the content and still clear. At this point, it's reliably there. It's easy enough to be cleared by the majority but hard enough that it gets significantly more difficult to clear if a quarter of party zones out for your average player.

While this may be a story driven game and we're talking about main scenario content as your character grows in abilities and equipment s9 should the content you're enjoying rise to meet your new capabilities. This is a simple and very old structure for games in general, not just RPGs. So, it's both understandable and expected that the game gets a bit more challenging as you progress. And we've been progressing in this game since 2013 and even if you hadn't been playing since then - unless you pay specifically to skip that story content - you still have to play through it. I do not believe that that any of the story content is too difficult and even solo duties have an easy mode if you can't be arsed to learn it.

Unlike your typical hardcore content, there are absolutely visual indicators for each and every mechanic performed by every single boss in dead ends. While they aren't always giant orange floor markers, casual content hasn't always used those markers for visual indicators since as far back A Realm Reborn. Expecting you to be able to pick these visual cues have long since been established.

[SargentToughie]

I very much disagree that Dead Ends is pushing at all towards hardcore content difficulty. I wouldn't even put it anywhere near the difficulty of Pharos Sirius in 2.1 or Steps of Faith in 3.0 and neither of those were hardcore difficulty either.

I agree that MSQ content shouldn't be super hard but it should be challenging enough that you can't just zone out from the content and still clear. At this point, it's reliably there. It's easy enough to be cleared by the majority but hard enough that it gets significantly more difficult to clear if a quarter of party zones out for your average player.

While this may be a story driven game and we're talking about main scenario content as your character grows in abilities and equipment s9 should the content you're enjoying rise to meet your new capabilities. This is a simple and very old structure for games in general, not just RPGs. So, it's both understandable and expected that the game gets a bit more challenging as you progress. And we've been progressing in this game since 2013 and even if you hadn't been playing since then - unless you pay specifically to skip that story content - you still have to play through it. I do not believe that that any of the story content is too difficult and even solo duties have an easy mode if you can't be arsed to learn it.

Unlike your typical hardcore content, there are absolutely visual indicators for each and every mechanic performed by every single boss in dead ends. While they aren't always giant orange floor markers, casual content hasn't always used those markers for visual indicators since as far back A Realm Reborn. Expecting you to be able to pick these visual cues have long since been established.

Echoing this sentiment.

Max level dungeons have always had mechanics with some teeth to them, even if they're not overall super hard. Right off the top of my head, the final boss of Heroes' Gauntlet will 1-shot you if you don't stand in the crater, and Shinryu has been a meme for years as being a 'wall' into endgame since the end of Stormblood (putting aside that Shinryu is kind of a joke, but w/e)

Anybody who thinks that Dead Ends is an outlier in difficulty hasn't been playing FFXIV for very long. The dungeon will punish you, sure, but it's not hard. Everything is clearly broadcasted, even if it takes a time or two for people to properly internalize it.

[ArkenaeuxBelmont]

Fair enough... but it was a different paradigm, where the "holy trinity" was tank/heals/slow,CC .... so it was a different playstyle. Not as twitchy. It feels like the more jump rope extreme FFXIV gets the more like an FPS the fights feel like.

Considering the turn based roots of FF, it's quite a different style.

Except the game hasn't been getting more jumprope extreme in dungeon content.

They are all the same mechanics, used before, over and over again.

[Hurlstone]

Do it with Trusts, follow them, you can not go wrong.

Amazing bait post, btw.

Outside of the story reason to do Trusts, that is another reason why I really like them. You actually get to learn the mechanics whilst playing the dungeon, no need to spoil it via guide or anything first.

I admit I did get killed a few times by the second boss, but thats part of the learning process.

[ArkenaeuxBelmont]

Outside of the story reason to do Trusts, that is another reason why I really like them. You actually get to learn the mechanics whilst playing the dungeon, no need to spoil it via guide or anything first.

I admit I did get killed a few times by the second boss, but thats part of the learning process.

Careful, things that make so much sense will get the inevitable "You're gatekeeping by telling me how to play" argument response from the naysayers.

Imagine not using the tools the game gives you to actually improve.

[Raige]

Fair enough... but it was a different paradigm, where the "holy trinity" was tank/heals/slow,CC .... so it was a different playstyle. Not as twitchy. It feels like the more jump rope extreme FFXIV gets the more like an FPS the fights feel like.

Considering the turn based roots of FF, it's quite a different style.

I like to think that the only reason the playstyle was what it was then, and not this fast action driven mmo jump ropey thing was impart due to technical limitations. As our technology evolved, so did the mmo.

[Stepjam]

I'll admit that Dead Ends is probably the hardest dungeon of the expac thus far, but I wouldn't call it HARD. Boss 1 is just figure which way the wind is blowing and hang out on the side of the arena it's blowing from.

Actually, it might have been more interesting if the fight forced you to start on the other side of the arena somehow and you had to weave through the clouds as they blow towards you.

[xenahawk]

Do it with Trusts, follow them, you can not go wrong.

Amazing bait post, btw.

Unless one the over lapping aoes is the unavoidable burst that means stacking on another player or trustee is certain death. I have suffered that dungeon a handful of times and still have issues with that second boss, lol