How is this fair for DRK?

[GalaxyEyes]

i dont understand a single word from here.

do you guys actually think DRK is a good TANK?

War = equilibrium, trill of battle, shake it off, bloodDrinking*
PLD = clemency, Holy sheltron, holy spirit.
gun = aurora, hoc.
DRK = abyssal-drain.

Can you see the pattern? LOL i just noticed this while i was thinking about it.
*drinking is better then wetting. cause he feels like a vampire: healing while punch stuff.

Imagine thinking that TBN acutally 'heals'... LOL, try to heal yourself with TBN while Walking Dead is active.

[Dracosavarian]

i dont understand a single word from here.

do you guys actually think DRK is a good TANK?

War = equilibrium, trill of battle, shake it off, bloodDrinking*
PLD = clemency, Holy sheltron, holy spirit.
gun = aurora, hoc.
DRK = abyssal-drain.

Can you see the pattern? LOL i just noticed this while i was thinking about it.
*drinking is better then wetting. cause he feels like a vampire: healing while punch stuff.

Imagine thinking that TBN acutally 'heals'... LOL, try to heal yourself with TBN while Walking Dead is active.

That is, effectively, the argument that keeps getting thrown out, to paint a narrative that I feel does not line up with reality.

That somehow, a shield that can burst in 3 seconds flat ( And it has on me. Frequently. ) is somehow able to stand up to or be even more powerful than mitigation that lasts 6, 8, or 10 seconds, that also has various, far more powerful effects than the shield by itself.

[Frostbytenn]

the fact many people arent talking about how unmend and unleash are spells instead of weaponskills is something impressive. this is horrid as basically the recast for both stays at 2.5 sec. which makes using bloodweapon impossible to get 5 uses out of. also blood weapon should have been changed to stacks like delirium. the blackest night should have gotten an upgrade instead of enhanced unmend. tbn should have gotten a 15% total damage mitigation AFTER the shield breaks so than it actually becomes great in dungeons and either a mana cost reduction or removal of the mana cost and increase the cd of it and increase duration of the shield as you must get total use of the shield to actually gain something of good value and sometimes 7 secs is just too little. the worse experience for drk is leveling up in dungeons everyone who has played drk all say this. the raids are outright great if not the best to many. you have damage in place of survivability and in dungeons you are causing the healer a heart attack everytime you do a pull and it lasts more than 60 seconds. this isnt always the case to be honest, but it happens all too often and i wouldnt be surprised if the tank that has died the most in dungs are drk while warriors are least likely to die.

why isnt dark mind a total dmg mitigation or vulne down like the warriors? it being a magic dmg only is bad. are there special cases for its use? kinda but in dungeons its basically meh. as many things are physical. and sometimes mixed damage and stacking two defensives is not worth math wise. you can still do it for less magic damage taken and dark mind is worthless so its not like you are losing much. also if oblation is going to exist lower its lvl requirement. drk gets one mitigation at lvl 38 shadow wall and the other at lvl 45 dark mind which is useless in most cases and the next defensive you get is tbn at lvl 70 that's 32 lvls of nothing but rampart, arms length and reprisal. put oblation somewhere earlier along with stalwart soul.

living dead oh boy how this skill pales in comparison to any invul. superbolide is better by miles. holmgang and bolide got buffed. in the same game where LD exists. LD makes the drk players dread in fear of if their healer noticed they used it and got the debuff. this skill shouldnt have such a punishing debuff how does it make any sense the undying move kills you anyways? it doesnt even hold the longest duration anymore. AND DOESNT LAST FOR 20 SECONDS. the first part of it is a buffer stage where you can be safe and than it becomes the no dying move after you take fatal damage and you still die after. if the healer doesnt have enough healing. which is less likely to happen cause if you used it than you they most likely have used much of their healing already (well most of the time at least).
this is just my thoughts of course, but i just feel like drk shouldnt be so painful in dungeons so it can have an above average raid and trial experience.

[Lyth]

Hm. Could damage prevented through percent damage reduction considered to be a form of healing?

The only reason why flat damage reduction gets equated to healing on these graphs is to give you some equivalent measure of a shield healer's performance. But while you can draw analogies between HP, healing, and mitigation and try to relate the three, the function of each one of these three things is distinct and there are circumstances where they should be treated differently.

The most obvious place where flat damage reduction and healing play out differently is if you're soloing something. If you have healing that can keep up with the incoming damage on average, then you can continue to fight indefinitely. You can't do the same with flat damage reduction unless you prevent all incoming damage indefinitely (i.e. you're permanently invincible), as your health will eventually chip down to zero. Likewise, if you have something that could instantly kill you in a single hit, healing doesn't help but flat damage reduction does.

If you want to compare like with like, then it should be to compare percent damage mitigation with flat damage mitigation. There are still some differences, of course (as the amount mitigated by %DR scales up with bigger hits), but it's a fairer comparison.

[TouchandFeel]

*drinking is better then wetting. cause he feels like a vampire: healing while punch stuff.

It's whetting, not wetting.

The word whet means "to sharpen" with the most common usage being in reference to sharpening a blade. That is where the name for a whetstone comes from.
The other usage, which is a little more archaic, is in reference to appetite, like in the phrase "to whet ones' appetite", meaning to "sharpen"/increase ones' appetite.

"Bloodwhetting" is just a playful usage of the word that implies an appetite for blood while also referencing the sharpening of a blade, like the one on their axe.
I also wouldn't be surprised if it was intentionally made to sound like bloodletting, which is the old practice of carefully draining a persons' blood thinking that it would cure them of different ailments and/or reinvigorate them by getting rid of the "bad blood" from the body.

[Lammas]

Imagine thinking that TBN acutally 'heals'... LOL, try to heal yourself with TBN while Walking Dead is active.

When am I ever going to be in this situation? If a bunch of mobs are nibbling at your ankles then 25 % shield and a 25 % heal would be on equal footing assuming that the shield breaks (which it will) and that the heals don't overheal (which with a healer alive they might).

The day LD changes for the better is a day I'll pop a bottle of champagne but this is just trying to move goal posts. For the record a 25 % heal wouldn't save you during LD either...

That is, effectively, the argument that keeps getting thrown out, to paint a narrative that I feel does not line up with reality.

That somehow, a shield that can burst in 3 seconds flat ( And it has on me. Frequently. ) is somehow able to stand up to or be even more powerful than mitigation that lasts 6, 8, or 10 seconds, that also has various, far more powerful effects than the shield by itself.

If it break in 3 seconds then that means you just prevented yourself from taking 25 % of your max health worth of damage in those 3 seconds. You are also completely ignoring the fact that TBN cooldown is 15 so it's going to be up way more often than those "far more powerful mitigations".

Then again, that's if you constantly use it. and if it is broken every time. And you manage to generate enough mana to use it on cooldown every time.

Just with Stalwart combo you're gaining 3000 mp every 10 GCDs. Throw Delirium, AD and the natural mana ticks in there and you'd be hard pressed to run out of mana in a dungeon pack unless you're spending it all upfront which would just be user error. Also 3-4 average damage dungeon mobs will break the shield with no mits, 4-5 break it with mits. This is a complete non-issue. If it stops breaking, stop using it. The natural out of combat mana tick is gonna give you 600 every 3 seconds so you'll have enough to get started on the next pack again.

[Ariel_Valmont]

Or add in a way to reset the cooldown through other abilities. Problem solved.

[Ariel_Valmont]

You could probably fix DRK's performance in dungeons just by putting CS/AD on a 30 sec CD instead of a 60 one.

Was responding to this sorry didn’t hit reply with quote.

[Dracosavarian]

If it break in 3 seconds then that means you just prevented yourself from taking 25 % of your max health worth of damage in those 3 seconds. You are also completely ignoring the fact that you can use TBN cooldown is 15 so it's going to be up way more often than those "far more powerful mitigations".

2 TBN's a Minute. Realistically speaking, with respect to a Drk's rotation. A variable duration of Nullification being up ranging from 2 to 14 seconds of total uptime, that does not heal us, provides no mitigation effects, explicitly tied to a damage resource which is required to fuel it, that must be monitored and held in reserve at the cost of our damage resource...

Vs Bloodwhetting, Heart of Corundum, or Holy Shelltron that has a fixed duration that is actually up and running longer than TBN, costs absolutely nothing for Gunbreaker and Warrior to utilize and can also be used twice per minute, that mitigates damage and heals the user as well. ( And in Bloodwhetting's case, shields you as well )

Bluntly, yes, they are more powerful. And arguably far, far more useful. If a Dark Knight is holding back their mana to fuel TBN's constantly, they are sacrificing something they shouldn't have to.

[Crater]

A variable duration of Nullification being up ranging from 2 to 14 seconds of total uptime,

You're way too hung up on duration. The correct metric here in a dungeon-pull context is damage prevented.

A shield provides 100% mitigation until it's broken. In a situation where incoming damage is constant and uniformly distributed, a shield that lasts 3 seconds is equivalent to 9.375 seconds of 32% mitigation (Holy Sheltron gives you 4 seconds of 32% mitigation), or 15 seconds of 20% mitigation (The final 4 seconds of Holy Sheltron). The damage prevented, despite an 8 second duration compared to 3, averages out to only 2.08 seconds of a shield.

At that point, if you're comparing the two skills directly, you're weighing up Holy Sheltron's 1000-potency heal and a "sometimes you'll have it" possibility of banking an extra 50 Oath Gauge versus TBN's 1/3rd greater direct damage reduction and a lower cooldown that (over time) trends toward getting 50% more casts than you get out of Sheltron.

There are other use cases where you'd start looking at different metrics (singletarget raid bosses have very different considerations than dungeon pulls, obviously, dungeon bosses are different from dungeon pulls in a way that disfavours TBN, etc) but in dungeon pulls TBN tends to be slightly ahead of Holy Sheltron most of the time, occasionally very slightly behind, and generally beats out Heart of Corundum in any realistic scenario. The idea that DPS is sacrificed to use extra casts of TBN is not relevant for dungeon pulls, for example, even though that may be a concern in a raid environment.