How is this fair for DRK?

[Lammas]

2 TBN's a Minute. Realistically speaking, with respect to a Drk's rotation. A variable duration of Nullification being up ranging from 2 to 14 seconds of total uptime, that does not heal us, provides no mitigation effects, explicitly tied to a damage resource which is required to fuel it, that must be monitored and held in reserve at the cost of our damage resource...

Vs Bloodwhetting, Heart of Corundum, or Holy Shelltron that has a fixed duration that is actually up and running longer than TBN, costs absolutely nothing for Gunbreaker and Warrior to utilize and can also be used twice per minute, that mitigates damage and heals the user as well. ( And in Bloodwhetting's case, shields you as well )

Bluntly, yes, they are more powerful. And arguably far, far more useful. If a Dark Knight is holding back their mana to fuel TBN's constantly, they are sacrificing something they shouldn't have to.

Everything that Crater said there covers what I'm about to but I'll respond myself anyway. This is talking about dungeons. You're not losing anything by using TBN on cooldown in a pack of mobs. If you're using it once a minute in a dungeon mob pull I'm not envious of the healers that get you on DRK in their dungeons. No wonder people think DRK is weak in dungeons if people are sitting on it's most powerful tool.

Also the duration variance is completely irrelevant. What you're looking at is that it breaks at which point it's prevented 25 % of your max health of incoming damage. You could realistically get 3-4 uses where it breaks in any mob pull. With 3 you've effectively healed yourself for 75 or your heath. If you get a 4th then you're looking at a benedictions worth of shields. And this is something you can just keep doing on every single mob pull while combining it with your other mits.

[Dracosavarian]

Everything that Crater said there covers what I'm about to but I'll respond myself anyway. This is talking about dungeons. You're not losing anything by using TBN on cooldown in a pack of mobs. If you're using it once a minute in a dungeon mob pull I'm not envious of the healers that get you on DRK in their dungeons. No wonder people think DRK is weak in dungeons if people are sitting on it's most powerful tool.

Also the duration variance is completely irrelevant. What you're looking at is that it breaks at which point it's prevented 25 % of your max health of incoming damage. You could realistically get 3-4 uses where it breaks in any mob pull. With 3 you've effectively healed yourself for 75 or your heath. If you get a 4th then you're looking at a benedictions worth of shields. And this is something you can just keep doing on every single mob pull while combining it with your other mits.

The very fact that you feel the need to try and turn this around into a personal insult, completely invalidates what you are trying to espouse in my opinion, and shows that you are not interested in debate. Objectivity in this matter, is clearly not your goal. It amuses me that you feel the need to turn to that.

I've been around since 1.0, I know how to play Dark Knight, and use TBN in Dungeons every chance it is available I get. But to sit there and act like everything is perfectly fine with TBN, and Dark Knight in turn when so very many are voicing complaints, many healers among them, on such a vast scale flies in the face of the argument.

It frustrates me when folks espouse that Dark Knight is perfectly fine, and nothing is wrong with it. Nothing to see here. When clearly the kit is messy, janky and ill thought out, is not fun to play at all, and provides nowhere near the amount of sustain and durability that Paladin, Warrior, and Gunbreaker does. And the reason most always end up in turn using as their excuse as to why Dark Knight is fine, as we are seeing here, is TBN.

Were TBN so utterly, insanely powerful in comparison, then why can Dark Knight not endure the level of insane pulls in dungeons that Warrior, Gunbreaker, and Paladin can that we are seeing?

Greater Duration of Mitigation + Healing bestowed vs greater number of incoming damage over a period of time matters. Dark Knight Pales in comparison to the other jobs right now in sheer wall to wall pulls with no stop. To act otherwise is ignoring what we are seeing actively happen and also ignoring the voices of so many who are giving their valid complaints in the hopes of seeing Dark Knight corrected.

To you and Crater, sorry, I am going to agree to disagree. And I will remain fixed in my thoughts and opinion.

[Elodie_Einsbern]

I think the issue that Lammas and Crater aren't considering is the spiky nature of damage in wall to wall pulls. They are looking at this over a duration of a pull and think its completely fine. But its something that DRK cant as easily address. This issue will be even more exacerbated when playing with a whm spamming Holy. As it will further align all the auto attacks to go off together. Honestly if Abyssal Drain was a 20-30 second cooldown, it would completely solve the issue. And It still wouldn't be as strong as Bloodwhetting. But it would allow you to directly and reliably deal with the waves of damage coming in. Thats why War is so damn strong as well, because it can setup to still handle itself between Bloodwhetting's. Drk cant handle itself between TBN's (I cant speak about the other tanks as I don't play them)

And I'm not saying they arent wrong about the math playing out that yes, over time TBN is a strong cooldown. Because it is strong over time, but that doesn't mean anything when you can fall over like a sack of potatoes between TBN usage. Because you get one Abyssal Drain per wall to wall pull, if you could get 2-3 in, survivability would increase tremendously. It still wont do anything to address the fact that Drk's "oh shit" button is still hot garbage, and will still be a major weakness compared to the other tanks for wall to wall pulls.

[NaidCaldera]

im doing the expert dungeons with wall2wall on drk and gnb and im doing just fine on both with minimum ilvl and without my healers using any hardcasts, there is no big difference in mitigation on big pulls, you can use TBN 3-4 times per pull without losing damage

the only time "sustain" even matters is when your healer dies on the boss and you want to cheese kill it, also sage and scholar cant heal LD, because when you are so low that you need to use it, the healer will have no instant CDs left anyway

[battleshadow66]

I'm sorry, but if certain peoples justification for the current state of DRK is "TBN is OP". Then we have some serious issues right now. The Job has been in a sorry state for a long time now, and people have to stop being in denial about it.

[Kalaam]

Even if TBN was a 300% Shield... it wouldn't make DRK ok.
The job, mechanically, is a mess. No amount of DPS will change that.

[DarkDredgen]

I do agree that we are not putting enough emphasis on our experiences with DRK being dependant on the healer.

You can have great runs in dungeons as a DRK with a switched on healer, I do it often..now, anyways, after addressing my own issues in using DRK, much more stringent use of tool kit required in EW compared to Shb I find, probably due to iLvl more than anything. I have no shame in admitting I was the issue for a time xD

But likewise you can have terrible runs with a green dps/inexperienced healer...and this is where tanks are truly made and where DRK, imo, falls short, because none of the tanks struggle when backed by a solid party.

I just feel like it has no way to deal with less than perfect healers if it needs to unlike other tanks, who can be just that bit more independent (or a lot more independent in WAR's case). Maybe that is by design, a trade off for solid performance in trials/boss fights. I don't know.

But I would love a little extra something in the form of HP recovery added to the toolkit. As suggested, shorter cooldown AD would actually help a lot. Or maybe a regen added to Oblation?

I don't think you can do much to TBN without pushing it over the edge in end game content, it's already very solid there and DRK could FAST become the 'must have' with its already good dps if TBN was to get buffed.

Just my opinions.