RDM should get a slight nerf

[Starkoal]

should come to no one's surprise that Red mage as of now, is actually REALLY strong, but the opposite for Summoner, i think that red mage should get a slight nerf, and as everyone has already said like 200 million times, summoner be buffed, to a point where red mage will stand right under summoner in terms of damage, BECAUSE of the amount of utility it brings comparatively.
And yes, I am a RDM main, been that since its release

[Dyvid]

Hmm, it's an interesting argument really.

RDM brings Embolden : Increases own magic damage dealt by 5% and damage dealt by nearby party members by 5%. Duration: 20s
SMN brings Searing Light : Searing Light Effect: Increases damage dealt by self and nearby party members by 3% Duration: 30s

RDM has Magick Barrier : Reduces magic damage taken by self and nearby party members by 10%, while increasing HP recovered by healing actions by 5%. Duration: 10s
SMN has Radiant Barrier : Radiant Aegis Effect: Creates a barrier around self that absorbs damage totaling 20% of your maximum HP. Duration: 30s

RDM brings Vercure : Restores target's HP. Cure Potency: 350
SMN brings Everlasting Flight : Gradually restores own HP and the HP of all nearby party members. Cure Potency: 100 Duration: 21s
SMN also has Rekindle : Restores own or target party member's HP. Cure Potency: 400 Additional Effect: Grants Rekindle to target Duration: 30s
Rekindle Effect: Healing over time when HP falls below 75% or upon effect duration expiration Cure Potency: 200
Duration: 15s

Both can cast raise though RDM can do it more quickly. The thing about raise though is once you move past learning and up to farming its less of a requirement. If people are dropping like flies during say an EX Farm Group, something is wrong.

IMO, RDM and SMN are pretty much on par with one another in terms of utility.

[rewd]

Hmm, it's an interesting argument really.

RDM brings Embolden : Increases own magic damage dealt by 5% and damage dealt by nearby party members by 5%. Duration: 20s
SMN brings Searing Light : Searing Light Effect: Increases damage dealt by self and nearby party members by 3% Duration: 30s

RDM has Magick Barrier : Reduces magic damage taken by self and nearby party members by 10%, while increasing HP recovered by healing actions by 5%. Duration: 10s
SMN has Radiant Barrier : Radiant Aegis Effect: Creates a barrier around self that absorbs damage totaling 20% of your maximum HP. Duration: 30s

RDM brings Vercure : Restores target's HP. Cure Potency: 350
SMN brings Everlasting Flight : Gradually restores own HP and the HP of all nearby party members. Cure Potency: 100 Duration: 21s
SMN also has Rekindle : Restores own or target party member's HP. Cure Potency: 400 Additional Effect: Grants Rekindle to target Duration: 30s
Rekindle Effect: Healing over time when HP falls below 75% or upon effect duration expiration Cure Potency: 200
Duration: 15s

Both can cast raise though RDM can do it more quickly. The thing about raise though is once you move past learning and up to farming its less of a requirement. If people are dropping like flies during say an EX Farm Group, something is wrong.

IMO, RDM and SMN are pretty much on par with one another in terms of utility.

Magick Barrier is far better than anything Phoenix does because you can time it and it's not dependent on fight design. Mitigation is also better than healing with how bloated healer kits are (and how strong tank healing is, minus DRK). Verraise is better than Resurrection and the fact that you technically don't need to raise once you are farming just highlights how overtuned RDM is or, relatively, how undertuned SMN is because that means that RDM is superior both for prog and kills.

[Starkoal]

Magick Barrier is far better than anything Phoenix does because you can time it and it's not dependent on fight design. Mitigation is also better than healing with how bloated healer kits are (and how strong tank healing is, minus DRK). Verraise is better than Resurrection and the fact that you technically don't need to raise once you are farming just highlights how overtuned RDM is or, relatively, how undertuned SMN is because that means that RDM is superior both for prog and kills.

this is basically what i mean, RDM is the caster that leans MORE into support than SMN, while it does have utility, RDM is THE utility caster, but when the parties get to the point of not needing res, well, that means less verraises, and therefore rdm will outperform SMN, i love me some strong rdm, but it should by all technicality not be higher than summoner

[zcrash970]

Magick Barrier is far better than anything Phoenix does because you can time it and it's not dependent on fight design. Mitigation is also better than healing with how bloated healer kits are (and how strong tank healing is, minus DRK). Verraise is better than Resurrection and the fact that you technically don't need to raise once you are farming just highlights how overtuned RDM is or, relatively, how undertuned SMN is because that means that RDM is superior both for prog and kills.

For some reason people think that the Phoenix Regen is really great utility. I think they forgot how simple and easy it is to heal in this game even in prog

[Starkoal]

Hmm, it's an interesting argument really.

RDM brings Embolden : Increases own magic damage dealt by 5% and damage dealt by nearby party members by 5%. Duration: 20s
SMN brings Searing Light : Searing Light Effect: Increases damage dealt by self and nearby party members by 3% Duration: 30s

RDM has Magick Barrier : Reduces magic damage taken by self and nearby party members by 10%, while increasing HP recovered by healing actions by 5%. Duration: 10s
SMN has Radiant Barrier : Radiant Aegis Effect: Creates a barrier around self that absorbs damage totaling 20% of your maximum HP. Duration: 30s

RDM brings Vercure : Restores target's HP. Cure Potency: 350
SMN brings Everlasting Flight : Gradually restores own HP and the HP of all nearby party members. Cure Potency: 100 Duration: 21s
SMN also has Rekindle : Restores own or target party member's HP. Cure Potency: 400 Additional Effect: Grants Rekindle to target Duration: 30s
Rekindle Effect: Healing over time when HP falls below 75% or upon effect duration expiration Cure Potency: 200
Duration: 15s

Both can cast raise though RDM can do it more quickly. The thing about raise though is once you move past learning and up to farming its less of a requirement. If people are dropping like flies during say an EX Farm Group, something is wrong.

IMO, RDM and SMN are pretty much on par with one another in terms of utility.

and when you then move to the point of farming, thats when you see the problem, RDM shouldnt outperform SMN, RDM have overall better utility they can control and time that isn't necessarily a part of their rotation, im not saying nerf it to the ground, but to just adjust both jobs so SMN will perform slightly better than RDM will

[gumas]

snip

what always bugged me is that why RDM cure is still pretty potent at mid to high level but for some reason smn cure (physick) is so underwhelming, like at level 60ish with 10K hp, a RDM cure can give you something like 1.5-2.5K hp heal, meanwhile smn cure only give you... what? 300? 400 hp heal? it so jarring.

[remiff]

what always bugged me is that why RDM cure is still pretty potent at mid to high level but for some reason smn cure (physick) is so underwhelming, like at level 60ish with 10K hp, a RDM cure can give you something like 1.5-2.5K hp heal, meanwhile smn cure only give you... what? 300? 400 hp heal? it so jarring.

Perhaps because square enix likes to leave useless spells for several years and remove those that have some usefulness, several spells from different jobs were completely useless but have persisted for years, the summoner's physick is one of them except that he is useful that the first 20 levels and it's really a joke after. to let such a spell to this job apart from having a flavor of a fake healing , I find it really an insult to the summoner to leave this spell present on the kit after a full rework if they are not able to make the heal useful.

[Azuri]

Until "show limited" setting deletes summons SMN deserves to sit right below DNC.