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  1. #1
    Player
    Edafosavra's Avatar
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    Dec 2020
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    Gridania
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    Character
    Ashana Helviiryn
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 80

    An idea to solve the DRK problem

    I'm adding my two cents on the DRK problem in the hope that it will find echo somewhere and will help into solving this mess.

    DRK has been reworked in ShB, so it's fairly recent. This lead me to believe that we cannot expect a meaningful rework on the level of new animations, new gauges types and such anytime soon. That's why I expect things on a smaller scale that would still satisfy me plenty, i.e. some rearranging of the things that already exist.

    On top of that, "just a revamp" would permit for the whole thing to come sooner that the next expansion in two years time.

    Right now, DRK has two main problems, its job identity is kinda... lacking. And, the point that made this whole thing blow, its severe lack of sustainability in EW.

    Let's first tackle the first point, starting by analysing what are the job identity of each tanks :
    - WAR is the [in a Jocat voice] fellcleave again and again and again with big regen tank.
    - PLD is the alternating magic and physical rotation tank.
    - GNB is the busy/spammy, you need to spend your ressource way more often than others tank

    DRK is the weaving tank (and TBN).

    Since it's rework in ShB, DRK is the weaving tank, currently it has 6 long cooldown oGCDs + the mana oGCD to weave in the rotation. And honestly, I find this concept strong enough to be a tank identify by itself. It's just that it's not stressed enough. Why is that ? Because of Delirium.

    Delirium is just a low cost Inner Release. The "hitting the same GCD over and over" has always been the job identify of WAR, and it isn't in line with what DRK tried to be on top of watering down it's identify by copying another. Not only it's not helping the job identity, it's impeding it. So give back to Caesar what belongs to Caesar.

    So let's tackle this first and let the subsequent problems flow by themselves.

    Step 1 : Delirium and Burst window

    As said previously, DRK keyword for his core loop is "weaving". So why not make his burst window a heavy weaving one ? A simple and (in my opinion) interesting way to do that would be to nullify the cost of edge/flood instead of the gauge spenders. That would create a window where you would first empty your mana by double weaving edge/flood and then double weave either two edge/flood either one edge/flood and another oGCD when they're up without worrying about mana (that is meanwhile slowly regenerating) inside the normal rotation. Basically a big ol' full on double weaving phase.

    That would be a different feeling from the "spam one powerful GCD" of WAR, the "I'm a caster now" of PLD and the "spamming the cartridge combo" of GNB.

    This introduce some new problems, notably with Dark Art being useless during the burst window. But I'll talk about that later. I'll first talk about about Living Shadow because I want to incorporate it into the Burst window.

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  2. #2
    Player
    Edafosavra's Avatar
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    Character
    Ashana Helviiryn
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 80
    Step 2 : Living Shadow

    I'd like the burst window to be linked to Living Shadow instead of Delirium to make it more than just a glorified dot. Hitting Living Shadow would be the big happening, that would justify it having it's own timer on the job gauge, because it's your burst timer. LS would be the main blood spender while Bloodspiller and Quietus would be the filler spenders while waiting for LS.

    If the interaction between the ressources (a blood spender preventing spending mana) is a problem, we could go even further and replace the 50 blood cost of LS by a mana cost. A la Black mage, LS would cost you all your mana (or any fixed value, the amount isn't the most important part) but would do two things : spawn Fray (which is mechanically a big dot) and nullify the cost of the mana spenders (and that would result in the burst window described before).

    Obviously, there wouldn't be any interaction with Bloodspiller and Quietus anymore.

    Doing that would obviously need a whole lot of rebalancing to the duration, the cooldown and the Potenty

    So now, we are left with two pieces of the kit that are kinda broken still : the blood gauge (and its spenders) and TBN (and its DA proc).

    Honestly, it would be so much easier to just remove the cost on TBN and do something else with DA. But I kinda like how it works currently, it gives it a different feel compared to the others equivalent mitig of the other tanks.

    Step 3 : TBN and the blood gauge

    An easy fix to DA being useless during the burst window would be to relocate TBN to the blood gauge. Make it cost 50 blood gauge and make DA give a free use of Bloodspiller or Quietus.

    That would also make the blood gauge behave a bit differently than the other 100 gauge/50 spenders. I play all jobs, but I'm not an expert at most of them, so I could be wrong but from my understanding, you spend the ressource when you're between 50 and 100 to not overcap while still having a bit of leeway. Here, that would be the reverse, you would always have 50 gauge for a TBN and would spend the resource on Bloodspiller/quietus as soon as you hit 100 blood.

    Making TBN a blood ressource would introduce the problem of not being able to use it on CD. But two loops of the 123 combo is a bit less than 15 sec, so increasing the blood generation of Souleater to 25 would solve the problem. (In AoE, there isn't this problem).

    We could also repurpose Bloodspiller and Quietus. As they are not the subject of the burst window anymore, it doesnt matter as much if they are big hitters. Instead they could have lower potency but have an additional effect of healing, or maybe to stay more in line with TBN, of shielding. That would transform the blood gauge from a damage ressource into a sustainability one, and that would give DRK some of this sustainability on the GCD that he doesnt have as of now.

    Let's elaborate a bit on this idea :

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    Last edited by Edafosavra; 01-04-2022 at 08:57 PM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Edafosavra's Avatar
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    Ashana Helviiryn
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    Moogle
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    Dark Knight Lv 80
    Step 3.5 : Sustainability on blood spenders

    Adding a heal to the blood spenders would be easy, but I feel like adding a shield would consolidate DRK as the shield tank, so I prefer this idea.

    However, because of how TBN works, it would be kinda janky to add a shield on DA proc weaponskill, let me explain. TBN is a shield that we want to break, so it must always be the most prioritized shied when several are applied. By adding a shield to the DA proc weaponskill, it introduce a new shield that will be prevented to break by TBN and that will be overridden when TBN breaks. So it's a problem.

    To that, here is my idea :
    - this new shield would have a fairly long duration (something between 20 and 30 sec)
    - using the blood spenders give a stack of this new shield
    - using the blood spenders when you already have the new shield gives you an additional stack of this shield and refresh the duration (with a maximum of stacks). Note that if the current stack of the new shield is already partially consumed, it's value doesn't get refreshed, it stays as is, you just have an additional shield when this one breaks.
    - breaking a stack of the new shield doesn't refresh the duration

    Because the new shield now works on stacks, it's not a problem anymore to have the DA proc weaponskill give you another one when the first one hasn't been consumed yet because you can cumulate them.

    For those that play Sage, you'll kinda recognize Haima, the core concept is indeed similar (a stack of shields) but the inner working of the ability is totally different (not on a long cooldown oGCD and the stacks are built up one by one, which gives it a different behavior)

    This leaves us with a mostly working kit. So now, onto some other tweaks

    Step 4 : other tweaks

    First, let's take a look at what we got in EW :
    We can discard the 3 traits, they are trash.

    Oblation is... Fine ? I guess ?

    Salt and Darkness, as is, is a fucking joke. One animation that we barely see every 90 seconds. What I would find interesting is to make it spammable (like every 2s for example). That would be something else to weave and we would actually get the chance to see the animation.

    Shadowbringer... Oh boy ! Just discard it. It's basically a flood of darkness but purple and it's name reeks of complacency of it's past glory that it makes me mad each time I hit it. And with the free mana oGCD window and the spammable Salt and Darkness, I feel it would be actually too much.

    Alternatively, instead of being it's own button, it could become a combo/upgrade to the mana spenders. Each time you do edge/flood, the next one would be empowered by being upgraded into Shadowbringer.

    On top of that, a big potency oGCD is more of a GNB thing than anything. GNB had Blasting zone with 700 potency at lvl 80 and now Double down with 1200 potency and decrementing AoE at lvl 90. We are trying to redefine DRK job identity by not making it feel like a "WAR but worse", it would be counter productive to go take a part of another tank identity in exchange.

    Alternatively, instead of being it's own button, it could become a combo/upgrade to the mana spenders. Each time you do a edge/flood, the next one would be empowered by being upgraded into Shadowbringer.

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    Last edited by Edafosavra; 01-04-2022 at 08:58 PM.

  4. #4
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    Edafosavra's Avatar
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    Ashana Helviiryn
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    Moogle
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 80
    Now, onto what DRK already has that would need tweaking :
    Obviously, transform Blood weapons into a stack system. I can't even comprehend that it's not already done when they did so for all other tanks and even for Delirium inside DRK kit. It could also get another upgrade and makes it regen HP, to have a bit more of that sustainability that DRK so dearly lack.

    Either unsync Carve and Spit and Abyssal Drain, or either give Carve and Spit a heal to make it the same utility as Abyssal Drain, but in solo target situation.

    Living dead needs some kind of change. There are two ways to go at it, either tweak the existing version to make it more usable, either change it entirely.

    To tweak the existing version, a lot of people already have proposed a lot of possibilities. For example : if the Walking Dead effect isn't proc'ed, the cooldown is refunded ; or the walking dead effect should stay for it's whole duration even once healed of 100% HP to only quote two of them.

    To change it entirely, I will refer to this reddit post that had an interesting idea.

    Finally, Delirium. Delirium lost its place in the kit when I relocated the burst onto LS. Wether it keeps its name or anything I don't care, but in its stead I basically want Sole Survivor back : healing when a marked enemy is killed (yes, like reaper, but HP instead of ressource). Or alternatively something that adds a regen/drain to most of the kit (or increase it if it's already present). This alternative would essentially make it the same as the proposed further upgrade to Blood Weapon, so maybe fuse them.

    With all of these propositions, C&S having healing, blood spenders giving a shield, Blood Weapons regenerating HP, new Delirium/Sole Survivor coming back, there might actually be too much sustain now. I don't know, it's just a matter of balancing to make all of it work together, or just keeping the best propositions.

    Whooo, I need 4 messages to fit everyting, I may have gone overboard.
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    Last edited by Edafosavra; 01-04-2022 at 08:54 PM.