Zodiark's Presentation in EW

[AwesomeJr44]

Let's also not forget that the developers themselves have frequently stated that what is 'good' and 'bad' in the story is very much open to personal interpretation and a matter of perspective.

Shhhh! Such gray morality is for other expansions! Endwalker makes it nice and easy for you and just tells you what to think, so it's obviously better. Stop thinking so much and think what you're told payer- I mean player.

And we all know how well tentacles go down in some circles in Japan.

Aight, take your godsdamned like and go. lol

[Lauront]

Yes, as we learnt, you should always judge a book by its cover and appearances are all that matter.



I actually liked Zodiark's appearance, for the reasons Theodric listed. And we all know how well tentacles go down in some circles in Japan.

[Denishia]

Yes, which is why Shadowbringers, with its theme of villains with 'light-side' window-dressing, was where we got Elidibus the Warrior of Light Primal who cloaks himself in the stolen desires of other Warriors of Light to facilitate his goal of Salvation for his people at the expense of the worlds of the Warriors of Light to whose prayer he is using. That's where our sympathetic but still must be stopped motives and decidedly not-evil in appearance 'Zodiark' was, so actual Zodiark needed to be something different.

Joining Zodiark - or even seeing his continued existence as a solution that the WoL would entertain- was never an option, so his visual design reflects that, and thinking of how to rewrite XIV to make a even somewhat-pro-Zodiark not dismissed out of hand I think the seeds would have to have been planted in ARR. At least for me judging how much time can pass on a story before a writer swaps the alignment tables. But EW the only part of how Zodiark that honestly surprised me was that his defeat happened before the 'Hydaelyn tests your strength to ensure your conviction and strength are enough defeat Zodiark and then Final Days' trial, which I was unsure would be a trial or solo duty. And the mask and tentacles on his design.

But hey, the beauty of message boards and forums, to see what interpretation and emotional reaction that thought was obvious to them and to discover radically different but no less valid ones.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Yes, which is why Shadowbringers, with its theme of villains with 'light-side' window-dressing, was where we got Elidibus the Warrior of Light Primal who cloaks himself in the stolen desires of other Warriors of Light to facilitate his goal of Salvation for his people at the expense of the worlds of the Warriors of Light to whose prayer he is using. That's where our sympathetic but still must be stopped motives and decidedly not-evil in appearance 'Zodiark' was, so actual Zodiark needed to be something different.

Joining Zodiark - or even seeing his continued existence as a solution that the WoL would entertain- was never an option, so his visual design reflects that, and thinking of how to rewrite XIV to make a even somewhat-pro-Zodiark not dismissed out of hand I think the seeds would have to have been planted in ARR. At least for me judging how much time can pass on a story before a writer swaps the alignment tables. But EW the only part of how Zodiark that honestly surprised me was that his defeat happened before the 'Hydaelyn tests your strength to ensure your conviction and strength are enough defeat Zodiark and then Final Days' trial, which I was unsure would be a trial or solo duty. And the mask and tentacles on his design.

But hey, the beauty of message boards and forums, to see what interpretation and emotional reaction that thought was obvious to them and to discover radically different but no less valid ones.

It’s also the same expansion where we become the warriors of darkness, people who decide to defend themselves against a race of people defending themselves from extinction by the other side. As i’m sure everyone knows if they’ve been playing since Shadowbringers, it’s been agreed that there aren’t really any heroes or villains in the shadowbringers story. It’s simply a battle of perspectives. Each side is their own hero and the opposing side is the villain, hence the devs leaning more towards the term antagonist in regards to the ascians or even zodiark. Elidibus was one such person who saw himself as a beacon of hope, the ancients’ last hope for survival, thus taking the moniker of WoL, he was fighting against the warrior of darkness who had taken so many of his people away. Another reason why Shadowbringers just wins in terms of expansion storytelling for me. If only Endwalker solidified that stance and gave both sides their due time.

[Denishia]

*shrug* I'm happy with Endwalker as far as antagonists go because I thought Zodiark was exactly what he needed to be for the story and didn't overstay his plot relevance or be an independently motivated antagonist separate from the Ascians and especially Elidibus- that Elidibus showing up was also just the right amount and I'm still cackling that 'Themis' is continuing his role as 'Important Plot Presence during the patch cycle'. The MSQ even redeemed (somewhat) Zenos for me in demoting him to his proper place as a Team Rocket side villain and tying his ennui and single-minded bloodlust, which is a popular characterization trope in not just Japanese manga and anime that I find deeply uninteresting and unsatisfying, into the greater theme of Endwalker. (I have quibbles with the final duel dialogue options, but Endwalker raised Zenos from my least favorite XIV character up a few notches). I liked what they did with Hermes and I especially liked how they subverted my expectations on Meteion's space exploration to not take what to me would have been the narrative cop-out and blame her inevitable heel-turn to despair on some Jenova/Lavos eldritch being out-of-context third party, but to make her despair and a manifestation of one of the societal/philosophical flaws of Hermes/the Ancient World itself the root cause, turning her into a elegant version of Necron and the personification of the nihilism of other FF villains like Seymour and Kuja.

Hmm, maybe if Zodiark's mask was a blindfold I might have liked that visual element more, as a visual symbol of how he was the shield of the Ancients to try to revert their world back to how it was (which didn't work, Paradise had Fallen and they weren't returning to it) while turning away from the cause, the worship of their new primal a manifestation of their unwillingness to face suffering or a lack of perceived perfection that the Venat Sundering scene was outlining.
But that would have been too much like the Sin-eater aesthetics, and Zodiark needs to have Voidsent aesthetics.

[h-alpha]

I agree with you on all of this, 100%... It was fantastic getting to that part of the story and thinking we're fighting Zodiark at level 83? ...but wait, level 83?! I was sold. It makes me laugh that nearly everyone had the exact same reaction, that's wonderful haha.

And I was intensely happy that they gave him the exact right amount of pomp and circumstance for where we were at that point in the story and what we now knew about what Zodiark really was. He was no longer the source of evil like we thought he was back in ARR. Powerful? Yes. Played an incredibly important role in the entire history of our star and in our own journey through the story? Absolutely yes. But still a primal nonetheless. We have ways of dealing with primals. No longer is and never was the biggest threat to our star, and they didn't treat him as such.

[Rannie]

I was actually laughing when we got to fight him at that level I thought it was hilarious also during the fight I kept joking around and asking who gave Fandaniel the keys to Zodiark....

Then again. I was laughing my ass off when we fought the magus sisters and Anima as the dungeon bosses.

I went into Endwalker with a let's wait and see attitude for the whole thing and it did not fail to impress me

[Alleo]

I agree with you OP. After some thinking (I was a bit disappointed after the trial itself) I too believe that this was a good ending for him. He was after all without a heart and by making him a puppet of Fandaniel he was also not portrayed as really evil, just a thing to be used. Bascially we freed him and now all the souls can finally rest without being used for the destruction of the planet they loved.

For me this is much better than having him as the big bad at the end.

[Jonnycbad]

Yoshi P even said months ago that people would be like "wait we are doing this now?" for the 83 trial.

[Thatusernameistaken]

Encountering Zodiark the way we did in EW was one of those moments that surprised me in how much it played out exactly how you'd expect it to given the established lore. We've been slowly dismantling him over the years and when we finally see him, of course it's going to be a half-finished god with no will of its own.

So many times in storytelling (and even at later points in EW) you get some sudden unexplained plot device that brings the enemy to life or to full power and then you have an epic battle. But with Zodiark it was a moment of "well what did you expect?". You've destroyed his most devout followers, prevented the rejoining required to bring him back to full strength, and destroyed his heart/will. So yeah, of course what you're left with is what we see in EW. I enjoyed how straightforward he was dealt with as it actually respects all the work we've done over the past 10 years to impede him being made stronger.