Summoner feels really, really dumbed down now

[dinnertime]

It's very unlikely that we'll see significant changes in 6.1, but 5.1 did do a fair bit for the SMN rotation so I'm holding out hope. Maybe they had some scrapped ideas that will fit in, or some good ideas. Because they killed the pets but we're still somehow at the mercy of carbuncle for our party buff and new shield.

A simple but nice thing they could do atm is add more oGCDs to use for the Bahamut/Phoenix phases. The easiest way to do that is just give us more Aetherflow stacks to spend, or reduce the cooldown.

Also at this point they should just bake in Aetherflow to Bahamut/Phoenix because that's the only time you'll ever press them. There's no reason for Energy Drain/Siphon to exist when Aetherflow doesn't relate to anything anymore.

[Dyvid]

I personally liked 2.0 SMN, it was pretty rewarding to play.

The best smn is IMO

4.0 > 3.0 > 2.0 > 5.0 > 6.0

I'm more along the lines of 4.0 > 5.0 > 2.0 > 3.0 > 6.0

I do think 5.0 did add some good things like defined roles for Garuda and Ifrit, but overall the rotation and design was a step back from 4.0. 3.0 I always held firm to the belief that players wanted to summon Bahamut, not Bahamut's Breath.

[aveyond-dreams]

I mean, if you'd like to pretend that old SMN would win against new SMN in terms of its popularity and overall satisfaction, feel free to place your bets. The mood in game and outside the forums is nowhere near as negative as this place would lead one to believe. The micromanager caster job isn't looked on with as much favor as the present state of affairs is.

[Lilyth]

There's this trend of deflecting any and all criticism of new Summoner by redirecting to complaining about old Summoner. Which when you look past the smokescreen contains zero reasoning why the new Summoner is good.

It's even funnier when you realize nobody has mentioned anything about bringing old SMN back or having dots again, people just want the new one to require at least more involvement than spearfishing. This talk has never been about aesthetic preferences.

[CKNovel]

It's even funnier when you realize nobody has mentioned anything about bringing old SMN back or having dots again, people just want the new one to require at least more involvement than spearfishing. This talk has never been about aesthetic preferences.

Who would be so illiterate to say that anyone here is asking for a comeback of ShB SMN?

I realized I was having more fun playing Warrior, it has double the amount of buttons to press for its DPS rotation, would you believe that?
Honestly, any tank rotation is harder than whatever the SMN rotation is.

[Sylvant]

The responses in this thread are waaay too emotionally charged.
Two part response because I like watching myself type.

A lot of people seem to be basing how well-designed a job is by their own opinion;
-I like current SMN, so it's the best it's ever been and is good.
-I don't like current SMN, so it's the worst iteration that's existed.
Job design isn't that simple. You need to look at so many other factors outside of your preferences on how a job should function.


To start, complexity, I agree, can really make or break a job.
As a few others have said, a job doesn't have to be super complex, just as it doesn't have to be too easy. However, it needs to be accessible, which many seem to forget. If a job is too difficult or has too high of a skill floor, it will be reworked or (as OP put it) "dumbed down." You can look at any job across the history of XIV on that.
With Summoner in particular, the previous versions all had a lot of management. Pets, dots, Aetherflow, procs, you name it. There's a limit on what they can expect any given player to do. If there are too many systems, it becomes too overwhelming for less adept players.
"But they can't always cater to the casuals." Yes, they can. That's the explicit direction the dev team has been heading with jobs. That's why the whole concept of skill floors and ceilings exist. That is why SMN was reworked into what it is now. However, one thing that is readily apparent is that this rework has laid groundwork for them to build off of. Will any changes be immediate? I don't know. Wait for 6.05. All I can say is that the way the job is now, there is ample room for them to develop and make it more complex if they so choose.

Thematics being a completely different beast; current Summoner is the most faithful rendition of the Summoner.
I've seen a lot of people complain about dots being removed, but I believe this is the first game in the series (somebody fact check me on this) where there was reliance on it. In the majority of other installments, Summoners relied on black and white magic to supplement their summoning magic. Does that mean XIV can't go its own route and make something unique? Nope. Look at Sage. Nobody saw that coming.
If the dev team decides that they want to lean more heavily into what other games in the franchise have established in order to make something more consistent, that's great! And from what I can see, a lot of people really enjoy current Summoner, so something works well about it. If the dev team decides they want to go crazy and make something never before seen? Go for it. Regardless of what method or approach they take, it's only different, not "good" or "bad." Thematics are all subjective in this case, not objective.

[Sylvant]

As for my personal opinion, this is my favorite version of Summoner. I would, however, personally like them to give us more actions like Gemshine and Precious Brilliance. I love the concept of abilities changing based on attunement. They're super interesting and pretty unique to this job. With more added to this, I think it could easily fill the "depth" desire a lot of players have. I also think Energy Drain could use a bit of TLC since it's mostly just tacked on as a remnant of ACN, but it's nice to help fill in the gaps a bit. The mobility is great and allows me to use my potato brain to press all the buttons. I also think they should add more aspects to the summonings. Astral Flow fit this desire really well, but it feels like there should be more to it than what there is.

So to go against everything I just pontificated, I think current Summoner is very well-made and is a marked improvement both for the majority of players and direction in design.

is gud

[zcrash970]

Who would be so illiterate to say that anyone here is asking for a comeback of ShB SMN?

I realized I was having more fun playing Warrior, it has double the amount of buttons to press for its DPS rotation, would you believe that?
Honestly, any tank rotation is harder than whatever the SMN rotation is.

Yeah reading comprehension is really low on English forums

[MaelleRiou]

As older summoners used to say. There are plenty of other classes to try.

Did you even read what I wrote? My point was that there is not another caster to try because they are all simple with new summoner being the worst offender.

[aveyond-dreams]

Then it would be best to wait patiently for 7.0's dot caster to come. We who enjoy new summoner had to wait 8 years, surely 2 is nothing for a job so dearly beloved by its fans.