Summoner feels really, really dumbed down now

[Aikaal]

The biggest problem is with the caster role itself. Rez on casters has been a problem since ARR.

Caster is the only role that has progression jobs vs clear jobs. Every other role is just balanced around each other.

Yeahh, it's fine they do less damage because of that but honestly, they should have put res as a role action for the longest time with a CD on it. SE is stubborn and refuses to do it. I personally believe the community would be better if that was a thing but SE just don't approve. Like how Yoshida believe Hallowed Ground is broken when its good and niche.

[Sequora]

Yeahh, it's fine they do less damage because of that but honestly, they should have put res as a role action for the longest time with a CD on it. SE is stubborn and refuses to do it. I personally believe the community would be better if that was a thing but SE just don't approve. Like how Yoshida believe Hallowed Ground is broken when its good and niche.

They should either all have rez, or none of them should.

[MellowMink]

If I look at the full comments sections of any of Larryzaur’s newest videos that include Summoner, there are numerous people who prefer the newer job changes to the older job design, and I can find that on various parts of social media or under the videos of some other content creators as well. It’s perfectly fine to not like the newer job design and want specified improvements to it, but let’s not also act like dozens of people on the forums necessarily represent the majority of the tens of millions of registered players or that those who prefer the newer design are simply wrong. I also imagine that people who are actively enjoying the new job are probably less likely to go out of their way to post on the forums that are only used by a minority of total players. That said, the developers should look at a large combination of feedback from many sources including these forums. We need a cumulative amount of specific data that isn’t just from here either.

I’ve also said it before and I’ll say it again: I personally prefer the newer job design to the older job design but still want certain updates that have been listed earlier in this thread and across some other threads. People who prefer the newer job design can still want to see improvements without seeing the job design mostly reverted too, and that’s not automatically a “wrong” thing when we’re discussing subjective gameplay preferences.

[Rolder50]

If I look at the full comments sections of any of Larryzaur’s newest videos that include Summoner, there are numerous people who prefer the newer job changes to the older job design, and I can find that on various parts of social media or under the videos of some other content creators as well. It’s perfectly fine to not like the newer job design and want specified improvements to it, but let’s not also act like dozens of people on the forums necessarily represent the majority of the tens of millions of registered players or that those who prefer the newer design are simply wrong. I also imagine that people who are actively enjoying the new job are probably less likely to go out of their way to post on the forums that are only used by a minority of total players. That said, the developers should look at a large combination of feedback from many sources including these forums. We need a cumulative amount of specific data that isn’t just from here either.

I’ve also said it before and I’ll say it again: I personally prefer the newer job design to the older job design but still want certain updates that have been listed earlier in this thread and across some other threads. People who prefer the newer job design can still want to see improvements without seeing the job design mostly reverted too, and that’s not automatically a “wrong” thing when we’re discussing subjective gameplay preferences.

The new job design appeals to those who like braindead simple classes, more news at 11.

[WhimsicalPacifist]

If anything I'd have preferred a more extensive rework pushing the level 70/80/86 abilities further down, giving a more fleshed out class overall. Those new users have yet to have the ephemeral new-car endorphins wear off and look closer at it.

There's are functional problems once you start getting into optimization. I don't expect the old class back; rather I would like the new class to be fixed before the next two years (unlikely). Making the class a more engaging leveling experience up to 86 and more functional at endgame (the latter is not a subjective gameplay preference).

[aveyond-dreams]

The new job design brings in what was a horribly-designed class for the past 8 years back in line with the rest of the jobs in this game that are for the most part regarded as more approachable. There is no situation where I could have recommended someone to play old Summoner over Black or Red Mage.

Calling Summoner braindead over and over again does nothing to erase the fact that it's considered far more enjoyable nowadays, as opposed to when it was the "complex!" job with all the other stigma attached to it. As it is now, it reminds me of Red Mage's difficulty when it was introduced back in Stormblood to similar great acclaim. Actual improvements as opposed to reversions are likely on their way, and will come at whatever pace they are willing to go at.

Again, difficulty should come from the level of content someone is willing to tackle as opposed to clunky job design.

[WhimsicalPacifist]

I started on Red Mage but quit the game because it was boring once the flashy skills wore off and ceased to be exciting.

If a job is boring to the point of being adverse to user retention (not reaching cap) then that becomes and objective problem.

[aveyond-dreams]

That sounds like the opposite experience of what most people seem to have had with Red Mage, given that it's usually the most popular caster job beaten only this time around by SMN on NA and EU, but to each their own.

[Exodus-E]

I started on Red Mage but quit the game because it was boring once the flashy skills wore off and ceased to be exciting.

If a job is boring to the point of being adverse to user retention (not reaching cap) then that becomes and objective problem.

That's unnecessarily extreme.
You could've simply tried another class/job instead.
That's what most players do when they're dissatisfied with their current mains (especially if the game's MSQ is still great)...

[MrJPtheAssassin]

The new job design appeals to those who like braindead simple classes, more news at 11.

The rework as a whole is fine, it just feels incomplete. Personally, I like the direction of the rework, I just wish it was more flexible at lvl 90 and had more to it. Things I hope the devs will do over these next two years or at least be addressed in 7.0. The job isn't "braindead" tho, it just has a low skill floor and low skill ceiling. Most jobs in 14 are easy if played mediocrity bc they have low-skill flooring like new smn. The difficulty of jobs comes from optimizing them while doing mechanics. Either way, it's ok for ppl to enjoy new smn because it straightforward shoot as I said all jobs in 14 also are like that. I just personally wish the new smn had a higher skill ceiling and had more flexibility in its rotation.