Summoner feels really, really dumbed down now

[dinnertime]

Yeah I'm pretty sure that what mchs and drks said in 5.0 and we'll look at what they got in 6.0

I know that very well because I'm also a MCH main, but the dev team *really* likes to listen to SMN mains so I still have an ounce of hope in me lol

[zcrash970]

I know that very well because I'm also a MCH main, but the dev team *really* likes to listen to SMN mains so I still have an ounce of hope in me lol

Lol if anything they listen to everyone that wasn't a smn main. I think most smn mains just wanted the egis to be larger and better looking

[dinnertime]

Lol if anything they listen to everyone that wasn't a smn main. I think most smn mains just wanted the egis to be larger and better looking

Nah, SMN mains would more likely ask to make pet response less clunky. Some aesthetic improvements were asked on the side but it wasn't a priority to them, it was a priority for the people who didn't really main SMN.

Instead now... Pets got removed LOL

[zcrash970]

Nah, SMN mains would more likely ask to make pet response less clunky. Some aesthetic improvements were asked on the side but it wasn't a priority to them, it was a priority for the people who didn't really main SMN.

Instead now... Pets got removed LOL

I guess I'm thinking too far back then. Egis being small and low detail has always been a small complaint for smn mains.

Though yeah you're right, pet clunkiness has always been a problem. Giving them the ax and make Carby do next to nothing didn't fix the issue oddly enough

[dinnertime]

I guess I'm thinking too far back then. Egis being small and low detail has always been a small complaint for smn mains.

Though yeah you're right, pet clunkiness has always been a problem. Giving them the ax and make Carby do next to nothing didn't fix the issue oddly enough

Yeah it was a big complaint back in ARR, a lot of the complaints at that time was the job fantasy.

Heavensward and onward people grew to like how the job worked and instead complained about pet response and the clunkiness of the job in general.

The complaints were still there, but people didn't complain much about the tiny pets when Bahamut and Phoenix became a thing.

[Equitable_Remedy]

It is, but its also 110% better than it once was.

Anecdotally, I see SMNs in groups much more often than I've ever seen them before. That may not last, of course, but a class being appealing to more people without being overpowered is generally a good thing in an MMO class ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What 6.0 SMN is not is an elite, hard-to-play class that only the most elite players can play let alone master, and 6.0 SMN will certainly not satisfy players looking for that experience.

Every class won't be for everything, though I certainly understand players that got into SMN for more of the latter and now find it more of the former and not to their liking.

[dinnertime]

Alienation is never a good thing. 6.0 SMN is a departure from what the job once was for the past 8 years and to no surprise people are unhappy because something they've played all those years got completely changed.

Was it for the best? Maybe, but they could've done so much better. The job was known to be clunky and in ShB the job mechanics were all over the place so I expected they'd simplify it instead to reduce headache.
But now the playerbase is more divided than ever with people enjoying the simplicity in favor of job fantasy, while the other half is unsatisfied with how much of the gameplay was stripped off.

[aveyond-dreams]

Alienation is never a good thing. 6.0 SMN is a departure from what the job once was for the past 8 years and to no surprise people are unhappy because something they've played all those years got completely changed.

Was it for the best? Maybe, but they could've done so much better. The job was known to be clunky and in ShB the job mechanics were all over the place so I expected they'd simplify it instead to reduce headache.
But now the playerbase is more divided than ever with people enjoying the simplicity in favor of job fantasy, while the other half is unsatisfied with how much of the gameplay was stripped off.

The truth is that the alienation occurred back in 2013 when the classic Final Fantasy job we knew for the past several decades was twisted into a warlock clone. This then caused even more problems when this game is a lot of people's first FF and they got fed a completely wrong idea about the job. To those that for whatever reason preferred the poison mage of the olden days, perhaps their energy would be better directed into dreaming up new dot caster job concepts and asking politely for that instead of endless complaining about Summoner.

Nevertheless the mood in game is significantly more positive than in the forums. Summoners are everywhere these days and nearly each group df has dropped me in lately usually has 1 or 2 when I'm not the Summoner myself! Never seen anything like it. Level 90 content is especially a joy seeing people's primals show up. 8 years too late for my taste, but it makes me feel warm inside regardless. Almost as if listening to "old SMN mains" was applying selective pressure repeatedly to the point that the job was far removed from basically every other job in game, pushing it all the way to the brink. Naturally doing that isn't sustainable, and now it's pretty much the best it's ever been.

Could definitely use some more primals, but they'll get around to it at some point whether as glam or new trances. I only wish that all those years ago that this was the job I could have started ARR with, seeing as it's the one I ended EW with. Big thanks again to the dev team for being able to realize this vision at the highest point of the Hydaelyn/Zodiark storyline. Can't wait to see what the next 10 years have in store.

[dinnertime]

I also think the job fantasy right now is a lot better than it used to be, but I'd argue that the only thing set in stone about Summoner in Final Fantasy games was the concept of having eikons fight by yours side while the remaining mechanics you have were unique to each one, and FFXIV's Summoner was really no different, but I've seen your musings in other threads and how you basically dismiss everything that's not your own opinion so I'd rather not entertain that.

Anyway, this iteration being the best it's ever been is highly subjective, same with your *own* experiences and observations. Those aren't facts.

You're more than allowed to be happy with the changes. I'm pretty satisfied with some changes they've made, too. But also respect that people are unsatisfied with it.

[Rolder50]

It is, but its also 110% better than it once was. We just need a few balance patches to even things out.

The changes Summoner needs to make it interesting are not something they would be able to do in balance patches. Best case scenario is it gets some extra mechanics in the next expansion that makes it actually interesting. I wouldn't bet money on this happening, though.