Summoner feels really, really dumbed down now

[tearagion]

Physical strain: your fault. Dissatisfaction: valid. Optics: irrelevant. Micromanagement: fun.

I don't want your solution, stop trying to shoo people away. It's entirely not your place and is just annoying. Same goes for your suggestions.

[aveyond-dreams]

Accepting job changes as they come especially when it is made clear that the overall foundation of a job has changed is the healthier way to go about things as opposed to continuing to complain endlessly about them. This is not a situation with male Viera numbers backing it, they are not going to walk things back at this point. A lot of the jobs I used to play have changed in unexpected ways and when I was unsatisfied with that I just played something else, seeing as how easy it is to switch things up and the variety of options there are.

The result is I can manuver my way through updates without having a negative all-or-nothing mindset hanging over my head. The moment this crowd gets their Necromancer or Time Mage they will forget all about Summoner. Their energies are not being spent effectively and so long as they choose to carry on this way I choose to provide a counter and opposition to their ideas.

The point I try to make is why they completely removed a job which a subset of the players liked (including me) and replaced it with a totally different class, jokingly announce the change and expect the pre ew smn to just live with it. And why should I trust them again to not do the same exact thing if I choose a new class.

For me that’s the hardest part to understand, did they really expect pre ew main smn players would like the completely different play style ? If they didn’t I would have expected a more comprehensive explanation of why it is not feasible to keep the old smn and the reasoning for completely removing the job.

Summoner was a job that was trying to be too many things at once-ultimately in choosing to go with a pure Summoner identity this meant that a lot of things had to be taken out in order to have a clean slate, which was what they decided to go with as opposed to carrying baggage from the past. Once more, pre-EW Summoners were not unified in this regard and a lot of people did indeed decide to stick with the job as it is now. The complexity and systems were taking away more fun than they were adding, and further contributing to the job's thematic crisis. Ultimately there was always going to be a losing side, though admittedly I believed they were going to continue doubling down on the complex/poison mage aspect right up until the job changes live letter.

Unfortunately you are correct in that job changes can sometimes really come completely out of the blue and that is why I highly recommend playing at least 1 other class. Even now, Summoner is not going to be the only caster I will level despite my love for its current state. When Shadowbringers took away my Astro card effects I avoided the job like the plague for almost the entirety of Shb until I decided to give it a chance again. In Stormblood I was extremely disappointed with White Mage and did not level the class at all beyond 60 in favor of then-Scholar and Astro. I suspect Bard may eventually receive a rework of its own, while Scholar and Dark Knight are...in a very unusual place.

[XmissionsX]

I truly do not get the discussion about which smn is better, the play style changed so much that the whole discussion is pointless it’s a new job.

The point I try to make is why they completely removed a job which a subset of the players liked (including me) and replaced it with a totally different class, jokingly announce the change and expect the pre ew smn to just live with it. And why should I trust them again to not do the same exact thing if I choose a new class.

For me that’s the hardest part to understand, did they really expect pre ew main smn players would like the completely different play style ? If they didn’t I would have expected a more comprehensive explanation of why it is not feasible to keep the old smn and the reasoning for completely removing the job.

[Rolder50]

I do enjoy how a certain someone on this thread acts like everyone agrees with their opinion despite the good ol forum like button proving otherwise.

[aveyond-dreams]

Sorry, but if likes on Summoner videos on youtube and posts praising the rework on other social media sites do not count as true likes, then neither do forum likes on posts that are just saying how they don't like the changes or are just fishing for internet points. I did not make these rules, the "complexity!" lovers crowd did ages ago in another of their interesting posts.

[IruruCece]

Sorry, but if likes on Summoner videos on youtube and posts praising the rework on other social media sites do not count as true likes, then neither do forum likes on posts that are just saying how they don't like the changes or are just fishing for internet points. I did not make these rules, the "complexity!" lovers crowd did ages ago in another of their interesting posts.

The only "rules" that anyone has actually declared in this and basically every other thread you coincidentally happen to be participating in is the one where you decided you would be the "representative" for everyone who actually enjoys these changes and the voice of "opposition", and also your repeated insistence that the discussion about them is effectively over and therefore nobody should make threads complaining about them, discuss them, or debate about them because, in your eyes, the matter is "settled".

You're clownshoes personified, bud. People can and will post whatever criticisms they have about the job however they want to, and hopefully that keeps you up at night knowing that at any point, at any time, someone might actually not have an opinion that matches yours and are posting it on the forums without your approval. Based on what you consider participation in discussion to be, it's a fair bet that it actually does.

[aveyond-dreams]

If you think the post above is doing any favors to your cause, you need to reconsider. Of course you can have a different opinion, but there are some things that indeed have been set in stone. They straight up said, no more poison mage Summoner, and there was no way forward with how that design turned out. They decided to make things streamlined and accessible and the result was a success. If you're raising your voice in support of the old then expect for others to raise theirs in support of the new.

Fundamentally there is no pleasing the two crowds in the same job, and now that Summoner has veered away from your wants it is time to request whatever you wish in a new job. Though again, given your present tone there is no certainty whether they will take sympathy. The time to convince people of the merits of such a design was months ago, and instead those systems and bloat were rejected by the majority. How then, with every other post written as they are, can you expect to see reversions or a new job tailor made to your specifications? It's clear that fans of old SMN are bothered by new people enjoying and expressing their enjoyment of the changes more than anything, so much so that they decide to act out the way they do.

For the past several months, fans of old SMN and its "complexity!" have succeeded in painting themselves in such a negative light as to drive more and more people away from their cause. I look forward to the coming months, seeing as how if present trends hold there will be less and less people willing to entertain such discussions. Regardless, reversion or no I remain unaffected. I do not play only one job, so if something goes wrong on one I have others to fall back on. I developed this habit given that Summoner was in the state that it was for the past 8 years. So once more that crowd is implored, make your own support thread and ask for old systems in a new job there. Historically, this is how changes are effectively requested and introduced in game.

[IruruCece]

"I'm trolling these threads because one time, I read posts I disagreed with, and therefore it's okay for me to act the way I do."

If you actually had an interest in improving discourse, you'd start by looking in a mirror and telling the person you see in it to post better.

For the past several months, you, as the self-proclaimed voice of all who enjoy these changes, have succeeded in painting everyone who enjoys them in a negative light. You've also dragged down the discussion to "I got what I want, neener neener, go beg for another job" and for some reason, you expect anyone to engage you with an open mind and respect you refuse to offer anyone. I suspect this could be the result of a cranial-rectal inversion; there is no cure.

[XmissionsX]

Maybe just ignore a certain person in this thread or forum if I check the comment history, it’s pretty clear when someone just likes to rattle people's cages instead of contributing to the discussion. Or at least stop the quotes so I just can put that person on the ignore list.

[BaconBits]

Why does aveyond keep barging into various Summoner threads and making long-winded post with the same tired old arguments just to get ratio'd out of existence again and again by people that are just tired of them?

What is the end goal here?

I genuinely don't understand.