Parsing unfair but okay?

[AbysmalDuck]

Having… clearly defined boundaries about who you want to play with is a negative attribute now?

If you are gatekeeping content by using something that is against ToS (debatable and something I'm not going to engage in as it is clear in the ToS) then yes, you are exhibiting a negative attribute. Are you going to be there to caddle someone if something were to ever happen when they get banned or be there to apologize that you were in the wrong requiring that they use a third party program to join your static?

No, you'll be on to the next.

[LittleImp]

If you are gatekeeping content by using something that is against ToS (debatable and something I'm not going to engage in as it is clear in the ToS) then yes, you are exhibiting a negative attribute. Are you going to be there to caddle someone if something were to ever happen when they get banned or be there to apologize that you were in the wrong requiring that they use a third party program to join your static?

No, you'll be on to the next.

Out of pure curiosity;

How much Savage+ content have you completed?

How frequently do you interact directly with the raiding community?

[AbysmalDuck]

Out of pure curiosity;

How much Savage+ content have you completed?

How frequently do you interact directly with the raiding community?

Out of pure curiosity:

What does these statistics have to do with my opinion on gatekeeping?

[LittleImp]

Out of pure curiosity:

What does these statistics have to do with my opinion on gatekeeping?

A lot, when you're making statements about the morality of something that you potentially could have no firsthand experience with.
With raiding experience, it's more likely that you'd understand exactly why people feel compelled to use logs to make decisions, and your opinion would have a lot more weight.

When you've had 100+ hours wasted by people sneaking into your parties unprepared for its stated goal, you start to feel a little differently towards methods of detecting and mitigating those types of situations before they actually happen, for your own sake and the sake of the other people in the party trying their best.

When I'm recruiting for a static, trialing someone often requires 7 people to find a day and set aside an hour or two of their time. Without the ability to look at logs and filter some candidates efficiently, the amount of inconvenience and wasted man-hours assembling these trials would be IMMENSE. Ultimate recruitment in particular is rough, because there's a large population of strange people who skip straight to ultimate without developing their skillset in lower difficulty content, and frankly have no idea how to play at a high level. I recently watched an Ultimate group recruit a DPS player who consistently dealt less damage than a tank, and they racked up probably 10+ hours of wipes to Living Liquid enrage because of this individual alone. Most of them ended up giving up on the fight; A little bit of 'Gatekeeping' would have significantly reduced the negative outcome of that situation.

I've also had cases where I've actually denied someone from a group for having logs that were too good. That may seem strange, but it's important to understand that disparity in expectations is one of the biggest killers of statics. If I'm putting together a casual/midcore group, I'm going to ask a lot of questions of a top 1% player that is interested in joining. Without logs, it would be a lot more difficult to accurately balance the skill level / expectations of a group.

[xxmiamorecadenza]

If you are gatekeeping content by using something that is against ToS (debatable and something I'm not going to engage in as it is clear in the ToS) then yes, you are exhibiting a negative attribute. Are you going to be there to caddle someone if something were to ever happen when they get banned or be there to apologize that you were in the wrong requiring that they use a third party program to join your static?

No, you'll be on to the next.

Seeing as I utilize Discord and require my static-mates to use Discord to arrange meetings and voice chat - which is 3rd party app and also against ToS - I guess I'd be the bad guy regardless of if I parsed or not.

Also please don't report me for using Discord. :[

Out of pure curiosity;

How much Savage+ content have you completed?

How frequently do you interact directly with the raiding community?

I'm desperate to know the answer to this one as well.

[Alaray]

If you are gatekeeping content by using something that is against ToS (debatable and something I'm not going to engage in as it is clear in the ToS) then yes, you are exhibiting a negative attribute. Are you going to be there to caddle someone if something were to ever happen when they get banned or be there to apologize that you were in the wrong requiring that they use a third party program to join your static?

No, you'll be on to the next.

Pretty much every static will have someone who parses, that's the reality and it's normal. If a static group is particularly interested in knowing their own metrics in order to improve their own gameplay by finding their struggle points, seeing where they're at and being able to compare to others who're where they wish to be... that's completely fine, and their business. If they want to play with like-minded people, that's also fine. You being a part of a group with a mentality that's fundamentally opposed to your own, is stupid and you don't belong there nor will you have fun there. At that point, you find a group that fits your own mindset... you don't demand groups you wouldn't even enjoy change and cater to what you want - that's self-centered and childish behavior.

Either way, parsing is fine. It's technically against ToS just as Discord technically is. The predominant rule with parsing is not to harass, put down, or otherwise insult others for their numbers and to utilize it as an improvement tool. So long as you don't do the latter, you'll be golden.

And, even so -- most statics don't require you, yourself, to run the parsing program. Usually it's just someone there does, or multiple people do. Statics that want your metrics will, in some cases, provide a trial if they think your reasons are solid for not having anything available. Even so, if you're trying to get into a Hardcore group, and likely most Midcore groups, they won't largely want to take people who have nothing up since the initial reaction might be that the person in question is just starting out and that's not the sort of player they're looking for. And that's within their right, to choose who they want to play with.

[AbysmalDuck]

Pretty much every static will have someone who parses, that's the reality and it's normal. If a static group is particularly interested in knowing their own metrics in order to improve their own gameplay by finding their struggle points, seeing where they're at and being able to compare to others who're where they wish to be... that's completely fine, and their business. If they want to play with like-minded people, that's also fine. You being a part of a group with a mentality that's fundamentally opposed to your own, is stupid and you don't belong there nor will you have fun there. At that point, you find a group that fits your own mindset... you don't demand groups you wouldn't even enjoy change and cater to what you want - that's self-centered and childish behavior.

Either way, parsing is fine. It's technically against ToS just as Discord technically is. The predominant rule with parsing is not to harass, put down, or otherwise insult others for their numbers and to utilize it as an improvement tool. So long as you don't do the latter, you'll be golden.

And, even so -- most statics don't require you, yourself, to run the parsing program. Usually it's just someone there does, or multiple people do. Statics that want your metrics will, in some cases, provide a trial if they think your reasons are solid for not having anything available. Even so, if you're trying to get into a Hardcore group, and likely most Midcore groups, they won't largely want to take people who have nothing up since the initial reaction might be that the person in question is just starting out and that's not the sort of player they're looking for. And that's within their right, to choose who they want to play with.

My last comment then back to lurk mode. If people are so obsessed with parsing, why not just create a bot program to play the game for you then? What is the point in having a program tell you how to improve if you aren't doing the improving yourself?

Maybe I'm just someone of the morality that I want to get better on my own. Growing and learning, not be told by a program that I should've casted F4 when I casted F1. If you need Discord to have someone shouting where to move in a raid, do you really deserve the reward at the end? You didn't learn the fight, you followed a marker.

Good luck!

[Alaray]

My last comment then back to lurk mode. If people are so obsessed with parsing, why not just create a bot program to play the game for you then? What is the point in having a program tell you how to improve if you aren't doing the improving yourself?

Maybe I'm just someone of the morality that I want to get better on my own. Growing and learning, not be told by a program that I should've casted F4 when I casted F1. If you need Discord to have someone shouting where to move in a raid, do you really deserve the reward at the end? You didn't learn the fight, you followed a marker.

Good luck!

You need information to know how to improve.

Don't you read books to learn more about a subject? Why not just do the learning, magically.

[xxmiamorecadenza]

My last comment then back to lurk mode. If people are so obsessed with parsing, why not just create a bot program to play the game for you then? What is the point in having a program tell you how to improve if you aren't doing the improving yourself?

I never face-palmed so hard in my life.

Hollllyyyyy.

I'm kind of thankful you're removing yourself from the conversation after saying that - 'cause I'm feeling some second-hand embarrassment.

[Menriq]

My last comment then back to lurk mode. If people are so obsessed with parsing, why not just create a bot program to play the game for you then? What is the point in having a program tell you how to improve if you aren't doing the improving yourself?

Maybe I'm just someone of the morality that I want to get better on my own. Growing and learning, not be told by a program that I should've casted F4 when I casted F1. If you need Discord to have someone shouting where to move in a raid, do you really deserve the reward at the end? You didn't learn the fight, you followed a marker.

Good luck!

Tell me you don't do any high end content without telling me you don't do high end content.