Parsing unfair but okay?

[Nyarlha]

I always have FFLogs open on another tab when I read one of these threads, it's a fun experience.

Yeah, you start noticing how many people are writing checks that they can't cash by saying how "you don't need a parser to know you're doing good".

[JanVanding]

I always have FFLogs open on another tab when I read one of these threads, it's a fun experience.

Well given I was formally against them because people were purely just looking at numbers and not much else, ever since a Ultimate Raider friend of mine introduced me to the log analyser tool, my opinion had changed dramatically to be much more pro parser than I was before.

It's so very easy to stroll along thinking you're doing well and paying not a blind bit of attention because "well it worked in ShB" and "Well at least we are clearing " and not realise just how many mistakes you're actually making, mistakes the parser tool alone can't really point out...

"Oh I'm doing 92.78% uptime I'm doing great" you think with only a green or blue parse (this was me by the way) except I ran that parse through the tool and to my horror...

I'm clipping GCDs like crazy, trying to play much too fast with my rotation and as a result lost over 20 GCDs worth of dps because I was playing too fast...

So because of that information, information I would not have without a parser I'm slowing it down, training out the bad habits and doing a hell of a lot better, but still could be better still.

Without that information, I'd carry on being Naive, not learning, not growing and not being a better player of my job for my FC.

Yes people can be very toxic with parsing, but so can people against them.

I wrote this as this is what parsers are for, the real reason they exist. Don't be afraid to use them for self betterment.

If you're constantly grey, you're doing something wrong.
If you're green/blue you're doing something rotation wise wrong
If you're purple you're close and just need to fine tune and keep practicing
If you're orange or above, congratulations, you're now mastering your job.

[Risvertasashi]

If you're constantly grey, you're doing something wrong.
If you're green/blue you're doing something rotation wise wrong
If you're purple you're close and just need to fine tune and keep practicing
If you're orange or above, congratulations, you're now mastering your job.

Don't take this post to be against parsing in any way, but there's a lot wrong with this.

If you're green/blue you're doing something rotation wise wrong - Or you're playing perfectly but you're behind in gear. Maybe you're not using pots, and in pug runs some people don't want to waste them. Or someone killed you by failing a mechanic, since collateral damage is common in high end content. Or if you're a healer, perhaps your coheal is foisting all the GCD healing onto you.
If you're constantly grey, you're doing something wrong. - Combine factors from above, such as being behind in gear and someone failed a mechanic and took you out. Granted, this wouldn't be constant like being behind in gear would be for a while.
If you're purple you're close and just need to fine tune and keep practicing - Still might be playing perfectly and even geared, but you're in an off-meta comp
If you're orange or above, congratulations, you're now mastering your job. - No. You did your rotation perfectly, but maybe you've been doing that all along. Orange means you're playing in a meta comp with lots of raid buffs and you got good crit RNG on top of that. Congratulations, but mastering your job is only a prerequisite - getting orange requires much beyond that.

This post is why I wish more static recruiters would look deeper than just glancing at the ranking...

[JanVanding]

Don't take this post to be against parsing in any way, but there's a lot wrong with this.

If you're green/blue you're doing something rotation wise wrong - Or you're playing perfectly but you're behind in gear. Or someone killed you by failing a mechanic, since collateral damage is common in high end content. Or if you're a healer, perhaps your coheal is foisting all the GCD healing onto you.
If you're constantly grey, you're doing something wrong. - Combine factors from above, such as being behind in gear and someone failed a mechanic and took you out. Granted, this wouldn't be constant like being behind in gear would be for a while.
If you're purple you're close and just need to fine tune and keep practicing - Still might be playing perfectly and even geared, but you're in an off-meta comp
If you're orange or above, congratulations, you're now mastering your job. - No. You did your rotation perfectly, but maybe you've been doing that all along. Orange means you're playing in a meta comp with lots of raid buffs and you got good crit RNG on top of that. Congratulations, but mastering your job is only a prerequisite - getting orange requires much beyond that.

This post is why I wish more static recruiters would look deeper than just glancing at the ranking...

If you die you don't get orange or purple. Keep that in mind.

There's a lot more to it than simply hitting your rotation right we both know that, it's also fight knowledge, mechanical eptitude, buff synching, positioning so you don't cancel autos whenever possible (getting turned around as a ranged will cancel your autos, moving out of range will cancel your autos and autos really matter, they're a good portion of your dps, in the case of the likes of MNK or RPR they're every bit as important as your rotation) knowing when you can greed or when you have to back it off

People don't just get orange by Mastering their rotation

Anyone and I do mean anyone can sit and attack a dummy and get a perfect rotation but in a fight with lots going on? That's where getting good with your rotation matters as if you can rotate AND do the fight correctly, then you're getting that orange parse.

Otherwise, blue man group.

[Risvertasashi]

Anyone and I do mean anyone can sit and attack a dummy and get a perfect rotation but in a fight with lots going on? That's where getting good with your rotation matters as if you can rotate AND do the fight correctly, then you're getting that orange parse.

Otherwise, blue man group.

I was mostly agreeing with your post until this part. People don't get orange just by mastering their rotation, yes, but you still seem to imply it's all personal responsibility. There's factors varying degrees out of your control. In a pug group with 2 physical ranged? You're not getting orange even if you've got plenty of oranges under your belt, even if you know your rotation perfectly, mechanics perfectly, and can execute everything perfectly in the circumstances of those mechanics. Or maybe you will if you get amazing RNG.

In a perfect comp? RNG might still go "F you" and deny you that orange until you do another run.

Mastering one's job is merely the price of entry to have a chance.

Though, I do feel it's worth mentioning FFlogs has plenty of tools for in-depth analysis. I merely wish to caution against trusting ranking too much, for both evaluating one's own performance and for others'. Especially on the eve of savage's release - a lot of people might be doing their rotation fine but not shell out for crafted gear or so on, and the rankings will punish them for that.

[Azuri]

In a perfect comp? RNG might still go "F you" and deny you that orange until you do another run.

This is just plain wrong. If you know what you are doing you can get consistent 95+ even in an average PF group. Yes, even on dancer. Even pinks are entirely within the realm of personal responsibility and a bit of crit luck if you play exceptionally well.

You also heavily overvaluing group composition. Outside of missing role bonus you can parse high in most groups without duplicates. Group does matter when it comes to top spots, sure, but not your average pink.

[FlareVyzar]

Don't take this post to be against parsing in any way, but there's a lot wrong with this.

If you're green/blue you're doing something rotation wise wrong - Or you're playing perfectly but you're behind in gear. Maybe you're not using pots, and in pug runs some people don't want to waste them. Or someone killed you by failing a mechanic, since collateral damage is common in high end content. Or if you're a healer, perhaps your coheal is foisting all the GCD healing onto you.
If you're constantly grey, you're doing something wrong. - Combine factors from above, such as being behind in gear and someone failed a mechanic and took you out. Granted, this wouldn't be constant like being behind in gear would be for a while.
If you're purple you're close and just need to fine tune and keep practicing - Still might be playing perfectly and even geared, but you're in an off-meta comp
If you're orange or above, congratulations, you're now mastering your job. - No. You did your rotation perfectly, but maybe you've been doing that all along. Orange means you're playing in a meta comp with lots of raid buffs and you got good crit RNG on top of that. Congratulations, but mastering your job is only a prerequisite - getting orange requires much beyond that.

This post is why I wish more static recruiters would look deeper than just glancing at the ranking...

About this... normally we will never look at parses without someone being BiS. Parses are only looked at when BiS. Otherwise it is fine to be on the green side. Grey is still not good as you are able to still hit high greens with min ilevel gear even when people are bis.

As for purple/orange, there is no such thing as needing to play in a meta comp group. We are not in SB anymore. It is debatable for heavy rdps reliant jobs to not get their orange when others are performing extremely low but it is not that huge to make a big diff of a 95 to a grey.

At the top parsing level. We do not rely on "crit rng" to get 95s. For 99s, yes we do. Players who are trying to get 95s with crit rng are not really considered to be 95% as they are very inconsistent with their damage. These players never make it on speed kill level due to that.

Getting 95s is extremely easy in non parse, farm parties, clear parties. I get some 99s sometimes even in those parties, so that is definitely possible.

Other than that, "mastering your rotation" is not something we really emphasize on for 95s. Because you can play suboptimally , make a lot of rotation mistakes and still 95 very easily. Mastering rotation is something we aim at 99s.

The gap between 95s and 99s is as big as a mid purple and an orange would be or more.

Have a good day.

[JanVanding]

I was mostly agreeing with your post until this part. People don't get orange just by mastering their rotation, yes, but you still seem to imply it's all personal responsibility. There's factors varying degrees out of your control. In a pug group with 2 physical ranged? You're not getting orange even if you've got plenty of oranges under your belt, even if you know your rotation perfectly, mechanics perfectly, and can execute everything perfectly in the circumstances of those mechanics. Or maybe you will if you get amazing RNG.

In a perfect comp? RNG might still go "F you" and deny you that orange until you do another run.

Mastering one's job is merely the price of entry to have a chance.

Though, I do feel it's worth mentioning FFlogs has plenty of tools for in-depth analysis. I merely wish to caution against trusting ranking too much, for both evaluating one's own performance and for others'. Especially on the eve of savage's release - a lot of people might be doing their rotation fine but not shell out for crafted gear or so on, and the rankings will punish them for that.

Agreed, I don't put too much faith in rankings as you'll typically find groups using cheese strategies (such as single tank single healer strats in the current EXes to heavily pad their stats) and parsing at face value should be taken as guideline and not gospel

That's why there's in depth charts and tools that will decipher that information and if I were a raid leader that was asked to review a parse, I'd use the analysis tools as opposed to "oh you're in the top 2000? You're good to go" because that won't paint a proper picture and the devil is in the detail.

[Somnolence]

Agreed, I don't put too much faith in rankings as you'll typically find groups using cheese strategies (such as single tank single healer strats in the current EXes to heavily pad their stats) and parsing at face value should be taken as guideline and not gospel

This would make it "non-standard comp" in FFlogs, meaning separate ranking.

[JanVanding]

Yeah, you start noticing how many people are writing checks that they can't cash by saying how "you don't need a parser to know you're doing good".

I mean you don't, but you're also not going to be optimised either because the game won't tell you you're clipping or drifting on GCDs, it won't explain why synchronized raid buffs and snapshotting is important, or any mistakes or bad habits you making because it won't present that data to you.

So they might be "good", but with that information they would be great.