Let's talk Scholar: Changes, Class fantasy and Abilities

[PondHollow]

Y'all have my dearest regards, and I'm truly sorry for making such a peripheral comment, but are threads like this how people cope with the developers not wanting to talk about Scholar?

Anyway, for my contribution:

I like the tradeoff with Dissipation. A scholar should be a tactician, and tacticians have to make decisions. The only problem is how unrewarding it is. When you level other jobs without that kind of compromise you tend to ask yourself what the point of Scholar's clunk is, but if it gave you more buffs and an AOE explosion it would be fine.

[Eloah]

The issue that SCHs have with Dissipation is how it's supposed to fit into the kit vs how the player base actually uses it.

Point blank, Dissipation is for healing, not DPS, but because of how the skill is structured no one plans to use it for healing, only DPS and prior to Endwalker MP recovery. The issues come from how the skill acts and interacts with the rest of the kit. No other healer has to lose access to a good portion of their skills for using one skill.

The main issue is the healing buff which only effects spells, so no Aetherflow heals at all. And a majority of SCH heals are abilities not spells. The removal of the faerie isn't so bad as others have indicated you can spend the faerie skills prior to using Dissipation, but that's not something you should need to do. Why do we have to lose access to some of our kit at all. The biggest issue with the faerie's removal was having to resummon her afterwards, which thankfully was fixed in Shadowbringers.

Since it's inception Dissipation has had poor reviews. Players have figured out ways to use it, but its not a good skill. The skill needs an entire rework of some kind.

[Silver-Strider]

The issue that SCHs have with Dissipation is how it's supposed to fit into the kit vs how the player base actually uses it.

Point blank, Dissipation is for healing, not DPS, but because of how the skill is structured no one plans to use it for healing, only DPS and prior to Endwalker MP recovery. The issues come from how the skill acts and interacts with the rest of the kit. No other healer has to lose access to a good portion of their skills for using one skill.

The main issue is the healing buff which only effects spells, so no Aetherflow heals at all. And a majority of SCH heals are abilities not spells. The removal of the faerie isn't so bad as others have indicated you can spend the faerie skills prior to using Dissipation, but that's not something you should need to do. Why do we have to lose access to some of our kit at all. The biggest issue with the faerie's removal was having to resummon her afterwards, which thankfully was fixed in Shadowbringers.

Since it's inception Dissipation has had poor reviews. Players have figured out ways to use it, but its not a good skill. The skill needs an entire rework of some kind.

2 more negatives to it is that you can't build your fairy gauge while under Dissipation and you lose out on the spot heals from Embrace.

[Tobalito]

Y'all have my dearest regards, and I'm truly sorry for making such a peripheral comment, but are threads like this how people cope with the developers not wanting to talk about Scholar?

Anyway, for my contribution:

I like the tradeoff with Dissipation. A scholar should be a tactician, and tacticians have to make decisions. The only problem is how unrewarding it is. When you level other jobs without that kind of compromise you tend to ask yourself what the point of Scholar's clunk is, but if it gave you more buffs and an AOE explosion it would be fine.

It would be one thing if for all that tradeoff Scholar was defacto #1 spot. It simply isn't. You hit the nail on the head and it so apperant when there is a healer with pretty much the same kit but without the funk... what is the point of sacrificing so much, put so much on a co healer.. just to come out even when others do it with no sacrifice? Dissipation is a terrible skill. It does not give a rewarding choice and it's a necessary evil just to come in second anyhow...

[rewd]

It would be one thing if for all that tradeoff Scholar was defacto #1 spot. It simply isn't. You hit the nail on the head and it so apperant when there is a healer with pretty much the same kit but without the funk... what is the point of sacrificing so much, put so much on a co healer.. just to come out even when others do it with no sacrifice? Dissipation is a terrible skill. It does not give a rewarding choice and it's a necessary evil just to come in second anyhow...

Some people like to play the game to have fun and don't see it as a competition against God knows who.

[Haptory]

My original concept of integrating Dissipation into other abilities was a little outrage. Seeing as the scholar community is using it for a pure DPS gain I got a new idea.
Scholars use Energy Drain to increase their DPs output and to use up Aetherflow Stacks they don't need, and by doing so you have an overflow on the Faerie Gauge.
So I thought why not recreate both Dissipation and Energi Drain to Lily's Wrath and Wrath "Lily's wrath": your Faerie infliction damage to your foes instead of healing its allies can't use fairy (healing) abilities while in this state.
" "Wrath": a 150-180 potency attack that your fairy can use while under the effect of "Lily's wrath" uses 10 Faerie Gauge each attack (inflicts every 2,5 seconds, toggle ability as Aetherpact).
This way you will only have 3 Aetherflow stacks each 60 seconds + for each time you use Recitation, your Faerie Gauge can but used more efficiently and you will end up roughly with the same DPs output you had with energy drain. Only now your Aetherflow stacks are used in healing and shielding instead of dpsing.
Pro's: it gives more micromanaging to your pet, it keeps the same DPs output (roughly might need more tweaking), Aetherflow stacks will not pile up, Faerie Gauge will have more uses and may not pile up, keeps the same type of skill level as Dissipation for high level players to enjoy.
Does not really change much, but it makes the scholar handle a little differently

[RinaShinomiya]

Some people like to play the game to have fun and don't see it as a competition against God knows who.

It isn't a competition problem it's a "I need to work harder for no reason" problem. Even if SCH was overbuffed people would prefer playing SGE simply because it feels better to play. AST & WHM are a living example of that. There is basically no reason to touch WHM in a raid environment other than progging maybe because AST Buffs completely make up for AST's lower DPS and every heal in AST's kit is cheaper and they have a plethora of OGCD heals, meaning they don't have to lose DPS in order to heal like WHM. And yet AST is still not that popular of a class. Your average player won't play what's best, they'll play whats fun.
Even in other MMO's that's a thing, when Phantasy Star Online 2 Introduced the Hero class on the Japanese servers 4 years ago it didn't matter if the other 9 classes had a theoretically higher skill ceiling for DPS, which many players argued at the time, Hero was just easier to play and the class was played by roughly 75% of the playerbase, these numbers only fell down once other new classes came out that did everything the older classes do but much more smoothly while having to deal with less outdated systems.
SCH has been in dire need of an overhaul since 5.0. I'm not saying the entire kit needs to be thrown out and replaced but they really need to throw out some of those skeletons out of SCH's closet. Dissipation can be done much better without it having to feel like a relic of 3.x scholar that had more than just ED & healing to spend those extra AF stacks on.

[rewd]

Snip

Good players - which include hardcore ones - will play what's fun to them and feels better to them because they know that the game is usually balanced enough that using a job with slightly less DPS won't jeopardize a run and most importantly they know that personal skill is a much more important factor. It's not unusual at all for world first groups to play jobs that the community deemed bad because of their obsession with logs and their inability to correctly interpret data without being dramatic about it. It's bad players that are usually more obsessed with FFLogs, meta and such because they are trying to compensate for their worse skills.

What feels "better to play" is purely subjective. I find SCH better to play than SGE because it is more interesting and makes me feel like I need more than one braincell. Similar situation for AST vs WHM. Maybe for you and other people it's the other way around and it's perfectly fine, different strokes for different folks. People flock to easier jobs not just because they are easy, but also because they find simplicity fun. Conversely, some people like to play harder jobs.

Why play Paladin, which is harder to play properly, when you can play Dark Knight, which is easier and deals more damage? Because, assuming balance, playing PLD doesn't mean being deadweight and most importantly because you find the job to be... Fun. That's it. Pure, unadulterated fun.

Please, let us have jobs that can still retain a bit of individuality. Especially when we have a SCH reskin that is easier for all those who enjoy SCH's cooldowns /skills but want a more straightforward version.
If you are really the overwhelming majority and not a vocal minority (SCH isn't suffering from a lack of players, at the moment), they will rework the job because people simply weren't playing it anymore. You are probably going to get a rework anyway because it's their aim to simplify every job as much as possible, especially when it comes to healers and tanks. I was suprised the fairy survived to see 6.0 and I'll be even more suprised if she is actually still a thing in 7.0.

[AFuzzyMu11in]

Good players - which include hardcore ones - will play what's fun to them and feels better to them because they know that the game is usually balanced enough that using a job with slightly less DPS won't jeopardize a run and most importantly they know that personal skill is a much more important factor. It's not unusual at all for world first groups to play jobs that the community deemed bad because of their obsession with logs and their inability to correctly interpret data without being dramatic about it. It's bad players that are usually more obsessed with FFLogs, meta and such because they are trying to compensate for their worse skills.

What feels "better to play" is purely subjective. I find SCH better to play than SGE because it is more interesting and makes me feel like I need more than one braincell. Similar situation for AST vs WHM. Maybe for you and other people it's the other way around and it's perfectly fine, different strokes for different folks. People flock to easier jobs not just because they are easy, but also because they find simplicity fun. Conversely, some people like to play harder jobs.

Why play Paladin, which is harder to play properly, when you can play Dark Knight, which is easier and deals more damage? Because, assuming balance, playing PLD doesn't mean being deadweight and most importantly because you find the job to be... Fun. That's it. Pure, unadulterated fun.

Please, let us have jobs that can still retain a bit of individuality. Especially when we have a SCH reskin that is easier for all those who enjoy SCH's cooldowns /skills but want a more straightforward version.
If you are really the overwhelming majority and not a vocal minority (SCH isn't suffering from a lack of players, at the moment), they will rework the job because people simply weren't playing it anymore. You are probably going to get a rework anyway because it's their aim to simplify every job as much as possible, especially when it comes to healers and tanks. I was suprised the fairy survived to see 6.0 and I'll be even more suprised if she is actually still a thing in 7.0.

Se better not take my fairy that’s too far that’s what makes scholar scholar that’s way too simple and just nonsense

[WaxSw]

Good players - which include hardcore ones - will play what's fun to them and feels better to them because they know that the game is usually balanced enough that using a job with slightly less DPS won't jeopardize a run and most importantly they know that personal skill is a much more important factor. It's not unusual at all for world first groups to play jobs that the community deemed bad because of their obsession with logs and their inability to correctly interpret data without being dramatic about it. It's bad players that are usually more obsessed with FFLogs, meta and such because they are trying to compensate for their worse skills.

Whm being the most played healer in any content in a moment where Sch/Ast was the meta is proof enough that people at any skill level play what they find fun or clicks with them, its not something exclusive to the people that are good.

Please, let us have jobs that can still retain a bit of individuality. Especially when we have a SCH reskin that is easier for all those who enjoy SCH's cooldowns /skills but want a more straightforward version.
If you are really the overwhelming majority and not a vocal minority (SCH isn't suffering from a lack of players, at the moment), they will rework the job because people simply weren't playing it anymore. You are probably going to get a rework anyway because it's their aim to simplify every job as much as possible, especially when it comes to healers and tanks. I was suprised the fairy survived to see 6.0 and I'll be even more suprised if she is actually still a thing in 7.0.

Precisely because we've gotten a job that is almost a carbon copy of Sch is the moment to do changes, the job now doesnt have almost any kind of individuality, in the fairy if anything but from cd management to their rotation is as generic as the rest of the healers and the little touches of individuality it has are tied to systems that do not work well with each other like dissipation with a design so flawed it only works properly as a dps cooldown.

On another note can we for once kill the argument that players=job is fine? Whm being the most played healer even in their most broken iterations should be proof enough that population speaks nothing about the need of a job for changes as there are myriads of reasons why people play the job, ffs I played Sch in Shb and there was not a day I didn't desire for a job overhaul and like me I know many others, just because people play a job doesnt mean the job is fine.